Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Muddy from clay bottom - can it be fixed

I have been looking for solutions to my pond management issues and came across this forum. Have read through the aluminum sulfate threads, and am not sure that is the total answer to my problem (although it may be).

I had a pond built little over 3 years ago. Half-acre surface area with an estimated 6ft average depth (I would need to confirm the depth prior to any possible chemical treatment. Depth in the center is 12-15ft). That would put it at 3 acre/feet. We are in the Hudson Valley region of New York.

In 2014 we stocked some fish. Channel catfish, rainbow trout and bass. Also some feeder minnows. I forget the exact numbers, but think it was about 20-30 bass and cat, about a dozen trout and 1500 minnows. The actual numbers were suggested by the fish farm people based on the dimensions I provided. They seem to be doing well.

Pond is fed by some natural spring(s) and runoff. There is also a runoff pip that feeds into the pond - this is all diverted runoff from some higher ground).

It tends to stay full most of the year. In the spring it makes good use of the spillway. The area has pretty much had a drought for a month or so and water level has dropped about 8-10 inches. A healthy rain or two and it will flll right back up.

The local area is pretty much all red clay under the topsoil. Lots of rocks and clay. The bottom of the pond is that same red clay.

Pond is surrounded by healthy growth. Grass/clover/etc. on all uphill areas.

We have a "beach" area on one side with pea gravel and sand. This is to reduce the stirring up of bottom sediment when swimming.

In the first year, the pond settled and cleared to its current point and stayed relatively constant. No formal test, but I would say 12-18 inches of visibility.

There is still a considerable amount of sediment suspended in the water. After swimming, you can smell the clay scent. It can leave a red discoloration on clothing. Especially bad on the dogs since they also tend to stir up more sediment. They need a bath after swimming in the pond.

The bottom of the pond is very prone to being stirred up. Something as simple as a frog jumping in at the edge or a fish swimming near the bottom will create a cloud that takes a considerable time to settle down. My dog jumping in (or a person walking in) will create a large, spreading opaque mud cloud that seems to last the entire day.

I am wondering what my options may be. I understand the Alum can help currently suspended mud, but I don't see it doing anything to help the condition of the bottom.

Before I start testing, I would like to make I am heading down the right road.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Only way I can see to fix the problem is to line as deep as you can around edges with rock to about 4+ feet. Alum will settle clay, but won't prevent it from being stirred back up.

Im having the same issue except I'm in Mississippi. When my dog walks in it stirs up alot. Also when a small bluegill takes off from the bank.

Get some old carpet and line the edges with that (upside down), just under the usual water line. Put some rocks on it to cover/hold it down. Works great.

Welcome, Joe61!

Alum will indeed cause stirred up mud to resettle rapidly, yet unless you added Bluegill, Pumpkinseed or another more prolific fish to feed your Bass, I'd bet your catfish are the source of the looser, fluffy pond bottom. Minnows would feed the 3 predators you stocked for only a VERY short time! LMB need about 10 pounds of natural forage to gain one pound of flesh With what you listed for species, all your CC and LMB have to eat, are each other! That means the starving fish will root around the bottom looking for something to survive on!

900 pounds of Aluminum Sulfate and 450 pounds of Hydrated lime would make stirred bottom sediments resettle in seconds, to minutes. Do the jar tests listed in my Alum Kicks Clay Butt thread to see if your water clears on it's own...if it does, you'll need to remove some catfish, add rip-rap to reduce wind/wave caused sediment stirring, and need to add a quality forage species for the bass to live on.

Or, you can drain, re-compact/seed the pond's pool area, and restock with a more self-sustaining mix of fish, or get feed trained fish and feed a commercial diet properly.

Thanks for the info.

I'm completely new to this. I stocked the pond based on what the fish farm people told me. The minnows didn't seem like much, but I figured they wouldn't push _less_ than I needed. I was led to believe the minnows would reproduce and the pond would become self-sustaining.

Makes sense that the catfish would be stirring things up.

I'll do the jar tests to see what happens. Assuming the water clears in the test...

remove some catfish... how many to remove?

add rip-rap... how much, what type and where? The bottom is already very rocky and I was considering getting something like pea gravel to make things easier on the feet (people and dogs). Will that do? Or are the larger rocks necessary?

quality forage species... which and how many do you suggest?


The other ideas aren't feasible at this point. I can't do the expense of a drain/re-compact/etc. I'm not at the property full time, so can't do a commercial diet.

Re-stocking is something I would consider, but what is a more self-sustaining mix? From what I understand, bass/catfish are what most people around here stock, along with some trout if the pond is deep enough.

I'm back, and still confused.

Finally was able to get back to the pond and was going to try some jar tests. The thing is, the pond is now clear.

We had a wet spring this year. Lot's of water flowing in which stirred things up. Rainman's thoughts on the catfish likely added to the problem.

Over the summer, we have had a drought. No rain to speak of and my pond level is down about 2 feet. This is consistent with other water levels nearby.

My visibility is now excellent to about 3 feet. Things start to get hard to see after about 4-5 feet. I am happy with that.

Was considering added something like Bluegill as a feeder (as suggested) but am not sure how many or if this is the correct solution.

My fish seem to be doing well. Bass and trout have more than doubled in size (added at about 5", now 12" plus). Catfish have tripled (added at about 6", now around 18"). Doing a rough count, it doesn't look like I have lost any fish. The bass have spawned... I can see at least a dozen little ones swimming in the shallows.

If adding Bluegills will improve the situation, I am all for it. Just don't want to mess up anything.

Back to the original problem... the bottom is very "fluffy." It stirs very easily and creates a cloud that lasts a while.

Adding rocks... this would create a problem for my dogs as well as people. The soil is rocky enough and tough on the feet/paws. I have pea gravel and sand in one "beach" area, but would still like to keep the other areas somewhat walkable.

Old carpet... my biggest issue with that would be aesthetics. Can't imagine it would look very good. Also, I have a bit of "growth" on the bottom near the banks (grass-type plants). If that is good (is it?) wouldn't the carpet kill that? Would that cause a problem for the fish? (food source? spawning area?)

Rainman wrote:
"900 pounds of Aluminum Sulfate and 450 pounds of Hydrated lime would make stirred bottom sediments resettle in seconds, to minutes. "

Is this a valid option for me to simply reducing clouding from people/animals stirring up the bottom? Are there any other options to make the bottom less prone to being stirred up (yet still foot/paw friendly)?

The alum will help any disturbed sediments quickly coagulate together and fall out of the water rapidly. What alum can't do, is makes sediments settle faster fall out of the water faster than some fish species can stir up a bottom.