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Bill D. #453566 08/07/16 07:50 AM
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Bill smile I have no recommendations on this type of reel other than the trigger type she likes. Like I said, it seems like I replace the reel every year or so and she prefers these over light open faced spinning reel. it would be nice if the zebco model would have larger ratio reel, a 6 to 1 would be real nice. I am betting the zebco ratio is 4 to 1 or less. And if they had some tougher gears would be nice also. Ha, I have bought a couple of different brands and some of them looked really good when purchased but they all seam to have the same problem with not lasting through more than one season or so. Probably not much help here, others than it puts a smile on her face when she sees her new reel when we head off to White River Ark for our trout fishing trips.

PS, maybe if one fills out the warranty card on each purchase it might save some bucks?? Ha, I may have to start doing that smile

Tracy


Last edited by TGW1; 08/07/16 07:52 AM.

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Tracy
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Bill D. Offline OP
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Sparkie or anybody else,

I have HBG, BG and PS. I assume the little "HBG," I know have a bunch of from my minnow traps, are mostly HBG X BG just because the HBG are mostly male. I could also have HBG X PS or BG x PS. Question is are F2 HBG X BG or PS mostly male or do they tend more towards 50/50?


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Bill D. #454664 08/22/16 09:30 PM
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Good question. Wish I had an answer! Maybe ewest can post some info. As far as personal experience, in 8 years I can count the number of verifiable Fx hybrids I've caught in our ponds on one hand. If managed accordingly, there will be little to no recruitment.

Try this: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/fishery/AAG2862.1810.001?rgn=main;view=fulltext


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Bill D. #454694 08/23/16 10:31 AM
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I will check but my guess is those hybrids will have skewed male /female ratios. Some lepomis crosses don't but GSF - BG do.

From Childers
Hubbs & Hubbs (1933) reported that in Michigen F1 hybrids of bluegills, green sunfish, longear sunfish, pumpkinseeds, and orangespotted sunfish were unable to reproduce because males were sterile and ova stripped from the few adult females used in the experiments appeared distinctly abnormal. This study, often cited in the literature, has resulted in a rather widespread belief that all male hybrid sunfish are sterile. Results of my experiments conclusively establish that a number of different kinds of hybrid sunfishes produced in Illinois are not sterile, are fully capable of producing abundant F2 and F3 generations, and can be successfully backcrossed to parent species and even outcrossed to nonparental species.


Triploid progeny of pumpkinseed X green sunfish hybrids
1. Robert M. Dawley,
2. John H. Graham and
3. R. Jack Schultz
+ Author Affiliations
1. Two of the authors (R.M.D. and R.J.S.) are affiliated with the Biological Sciences Group, the University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06268 and one (J.H.G.) with the Department of Biological Sciences, Rutgers University, Piscataway, NJ 08854. The current address of Dr. Dawley is Division of Biological Sciences, Section of Ecology and Systematics, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853. The authors gratefully acknowledge the help of Walter Whitworth for assistance in developing this project, Robert C. Vrijenhoek for use of his laboratory facilities that are currently funded in part by the National Science Foundation (NSF BSR82-12150), and Ellen Dawley, Kentwood Wells, and an anonymous reviewer for comments on the manuscript. Research was supported by the Biological Sciences Group of the University of Connecticut and by grants to the senior author from the Raney Fund of the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists and the Theodore Roosevelt Memorial Fund of the American Museum of Natural History.
Abstract
Female pumpkinseed X green sunfish hybrids from Hall's Pond, Connecticut, were backcrossed to male pumpkinseed and male green sunfish. Offspring from these crosses are triploid and starch-gel electrophoresls shows they carry a double dose of the maternal genome. Thus, the female hybrids must produce unreduced, diploid eggs that are subsequently fertilized to yield triploid progeny. This is similar to the situation in parthenogenetic and gynogenetic vertebrates, where unreduced gametes are produced that develop, without fertilization, into female clones. However, because the fertilized eggs of the female sunfish yield sterile triploids, a self-perpetuating diploid unisexual “species” has not arisen from these hybrids.
© 1985, American Genetic Association


Asymmetric hybridization between two species of sunfishes (Lepomis: Centrarchidae)
Authors
• B. R. KONKLE, and D. P. PHILIPP

Abstract
Many of the sunfishes (Centrarchidae) hybridize in natural systems, yet little is known about the interactions among hybridizing individuals in nature. We used allozyme electrophoresis to identify interspecific hybrids between bluegill (Lepomis macrochirus) and pumpkinseed (L. gibbosus) in Lake Opinicon, Ontario, and restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) to identify the maternal parentage of those individuals. All 44 individuals collected and identified electrophoreti-cally as F1 hybrids had a pumpkinseed mtDNA haplotype, indicating that hybridization between these species in Lake Opinicon is asymmetrical; F1 hybrids result only from matings between female pumpkinseed and male bluegill.


Last edited by ewest; 08/24/16 12:29 PM.















Bill D. #454718 08/23/16 09:06 PM
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Thanks guys! I will try to post some pics of some minnow trap samplings in the next couple of weeks to get opinions on what kind of Mutts I've got! smile


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Bill D. #454720 08/23/16 09:39 PM
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Bill, pictures would be great! Also while you are at it, I'm curious what the minnow traps themselves look like, how deep you place them and how you bait them. Thanks

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CC,

I use Gee traps (google them). I painted mine flat camo colors to eliminate the original bright shiny surfaces. I look for areas of the pond where I observe small fish traffic and throw the traps parallel to the shore with a foot or so of water over the trap and leave them overnight. Bait varies. I use a heel from a loaf of bread or some larger fish pellets when I just want to see what I can catch.

Ewest,
Originally Posted By: ewest
......All 44 individuals collected and identified electrophoreti-cally as F1 hybrids had a pumpkinseed mtDNA haplotype, indicating that hybridization between these species in Lake Opinicon is asymmetrical; F1 hybrids result only from matings between female pumpkinseed and male bluegill.
[/color]


Ever seen any data on HBG crosses with PS?


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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Bill, pictures would be great! Also while you are at it, I'm curious what the minnow traps themselves look like, how deep you place them and how you bait them. Thanks


Here is some info on minnow traps.
Minnow traps


John

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Bill D. #454798 08/25/16 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill D.


Ever seen any data on HBG crosses with PS?


Not to my knowledge. There is some on multispecies crosses/backcrosses but the genetics are way over my head - i.e. I cant gather useful info from the studies. I do think it could occur but not sure the results but likely not normal sex ratios.
















ewest #455897 09/13/16 08:49 PM
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I've never caught a PS in the pond since stocking them but I have never really targeted them either. I caught several little PS in my minnow traps recently so I thought I would see if I could catch an adult. Put a #8 hook with a piece of red worm under a cork and tossed it out near some lily pads.



I had forgotten just how pretty these fish are. The picture does not do this little fish justice.

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First Pumpkinseed.JPG
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They are pretty fish!


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Nice work ! Good to see a plan work.
















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Maybe a data point on PS and snail control.... I stocked my PS when I had effectively no vegetation, and no snails, in the pond. I now have significant vegetation of several species. Although I have mechanically removed submerged vegetation several times, I have yet to find a snail. Maybe PS are more effective at snail control when you give them a head start on the snail population?

Last edited by Bill D.; 09/15/16 08:12 PM. Reason: Clarification

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: Turtlemtn
.... Do you know anyone I can get grass shrimp (P. kadiakensis) from?


I recently mentioned grass shrimp to the guy that supplied my SFS and BNM. Sounded like he might be able to supply grass shrimp as well. I'll check with him and report back.


Bill, did your source for grass shrimp ever work out? Are they still available?

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CC,

I emailed Mark with your question on grass shrimp. It sounds like he can provide some Northern species still this year but I sent another email to confirm that. How many are you wanting to get?

He also said he could setup a grass shrimp production pond next year if there is enough demand to justify doing that.


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Bill - I sure am interested. I will keep my new forage pond empty if these have a reasonable chance of becoming available.

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I too will buy grass shrimp when they become available, even this fall if he has them.

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very interested, although by now I have lots of hungry mouths that will try to snap them up.

canyoncreek #456040 09/16/16 02:46 PM
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Guys,

I talked to Mark and he doesn't know how many he will have still this year. He asks that you contact him directly so he can assess the demand for this year as well as helping with the decision whether to create a shrimp production pond.

jonah@jonahsaquarium.com


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Bill D. #456043 09/16/16 03:14 PM
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Bill, we will need to confirm that Mark truly has PK shrimp (P. kadiakensis, the hardy species, hard to come by that can overwinter under the ice in northern ponds) and not one of the many many other more commonly sold in the aquarium and pet supply circles before we get too carried away in our plans.

His source would have to come from a natural breeding population in a current northern pond similar to where my original stocker PK shrimp came from (Fattig source if I recall was in Nebraska?)

Bill D. #456046 09/16/16 03:41 PM
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CC, Yep he is aware of that. I believe his stock would be collected in central Ohio. He knows we are not interested in a southern strain.


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Bill D. #456055 09/16/16 05:07 PM
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Want to contact them but need a link to their email.

Bill D. #456064 09/16/16 08:21 PM
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mailto:jonah@jonahsaquarium.com

Last edited by Bill D.; 09/16/16 08:33 PM.

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Bill D. #456065 09/16/16 08:23 PM
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BTW Mark is familiar with Fattig and I told him his pricing would need to be along the same line...


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Thank you Bill!

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