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#45415 09/25/03 09:26 AM
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I am a new member and have enjoyed reading the excellent information posted.
I recently bought 10 acres of land and would like to place a 1.5-1.75 acre pond on the property.
From the time I bought the property until now the area became zoned and they limited the size of the ponds to .75 acre unless you have a variance permit given by an appeals board. The appeals board has been very vocal in not wanting to grant these variances.
I explained to one board member that I need a bigger pond because my ground is sandy(clay at 12 feet)and the builders said they would need to go down roughly 30' to have enough clay for the banks. The board member replied that "sand ponds" were fine and no one needs clay lined ponds.
I was wondering if anybody has had similar zoning problems and how they got around it?
Thanks in advance.

#45416 09/25/03 10:52 AM
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I believe I would do some research, get some printed material, and show them that sand won't hold water. If needed, I would make them a model with a sand dam and show them what happens. Then, if that didn't work, I'd probably pi$$ everybody off.

#45417 09/25/03 07:15 PM
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A liner in a more shallow pond may be an option.

I would make sure the liability angle (attractive nuisance) is as covered as possible in a populated, zoned area.


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#45418 01/28/04 05:22 PM
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DR 3131, I work on a lot of ponds in the central and western part of Ohio and have to say I have never heard of such local (loco perhaps) zoning. What type of zoning is this and if you want to let me know the county and township send me a pm.Most soil and water districts are glad that people touch base with them first when attempting to construct a pond, have you been intouch with your S$W people?Ted talea@thewavz.com As far as a sand pond "forget it"

#45419 01/28/04 10:14 PM
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As Ted says, talk to the County Soil & Water agency and also ask them who the "local" state soil engineer is. Talk to him about sand ponds and see if he will write a letter for you about the water holding ability of clay vs sand ponds. A varience should be obtainable if you do the right homework and talk to the right people.


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#45420 02/08/04 11:34 PM
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Ted and Bill,
I have talked to the SWCD in my county and they had little to offer. Since my last post in Sept. I had my day in front of the Appeals board as I applied for a conditional use permit to construct my 1.5 acre pond. I had a packet to hand all the members of the appeals board which included my site plan, letters from my neighbors showing support, letters from an official with the Ohio DNR saying that ponds >1 acre are better and that sand ponds are unacceptable. I explained that all the dirt excavated would remain on site(a big deal locally)
I had copies of the Ohio DNR handbook for pond construction and maintenance which said that bigger ponds are better and sand is not a suitable bottom.
They then told me that I needed a mining permit from the state if my pond is over 1 acre.(I later made one phone call to division of mineral resources who informed me and wrote a letter stating I do not need a mining permit) They then rejected my conditional use permit citing that I did not prove a hardship.
I had to do something I thought I would never do, I hired a lawyer and took them to the Court of appeals. My first court date is this Thursday.
My wife and I are so frustrated. I just hope somebody uses common sense and realizes I am just trying to construct a pond correctly that my wife and I along with my three boys can enjoy.
I do appreciate the advice.
dr3131

#45421 02/08/04 11:52 PM
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hopefully the lawyer and court can educate them. sad has to come to that. good luck,hope you get what you want. i don't even want to "touch" how the goverment, of the people, for the people tells use what we can and can't do on our own property.


i only wanted to have some fun
#45422 02/09/04 08:26 PM
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dr3131, as you've got an attorney involved, make sure that your attorney does not have any friendly relationships or conflicts of interest with the county solicitor.

Your lawyer may have to get ugly with their solicitor, and he/she can't be afraid or unwilling to do that for fear of harming a relationship.

We got burned with a somewhat similar situation years ago, and things never got resolved the way they should have.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#45423 02/10/04 09:04 PM
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DR3131,

I'm curious, why does your town limit the size of a pond to .75 acres?? Knowing the basis behind this restriction could perhaps help in preparing a hardship case.

Russ

#45424 02/11/04 12:20 AM
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Russ,
I have no idea why they set .75 as the maximum. The actual law says that all ponds must be .5 to .75acres. If you are going to build one larger then you must file for a conditional use permit and the total area of the pond cannot be more than 25% of the total land. The whole case really blows my mind. One of the township trustees(who supports us) told my wife that they may change the zoning laws based on the information that I presented to the appeals board about bigger ponds.
I still am holding out hope that it will all work out in the end.
DR3131

#45425 02/11/04 03:31 PM
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DR3131,

Good luck in court tomorrow! Please post the outcome and hopefully the court sides in your favor. When I built my pond, I never gave it a thought to check with the town to see if I would be in violation of any zoning codes. My biggest fear was the NYSDEC (Dept of Environmental Conservation). After checking with them, they said they didn't get involved with anything under 1,000,000 gallons.

Russ

#45426 03/01/04 05:36 PM
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I thought I would give an update. We had our day in court and the other side did not have the info. they were supposed to have prepared. The judge delayed court until May. I thought I was going to lose my mind.
However good news came last week when I received a letter saying that they gave up and I can have my pond. We should be starting construction soon.
Thanks for the support and info.
dr3131

#45427 03/01/04 06:01 PM
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DR3131,

Thats one hurdle out of the way. Perhaps when you're finished, you could invite the Board out to see the finished product and maybe change some opinions about ponds! Keep us up to date once construction begins.

Russ

#45428 03/01/04 09:15 PM
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Thats great news dr3131,enjoy your pond.Do you still have to install a fence around the entire pond?Ted

#45429 03/01/04 10:38 PM
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dr3131, good on ya. You did your homework, they didn't. You probably did set a presidence. Time to build!

#45430 03/01/04 11:06 PM
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persistence and knowledge payed off for ya. i'm sure it will be nice pond, do lots research on pond building so you know plenty before you start. old pond boss mags got tons of info and the books. i like Russ's idea \:\) \:\)


i only wanted to have some fun
#45431 04/24/04 08:27 AM
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I thought I would give an update. On thursday the appeals board officially gave me my permit to start the pond. The topsoil is stripped off and they are draining the water so they can start digging.
My question is now that I am starting the pond does anyone have words of advice on things they would do to make sure things go well i.e stocking/filling or other areas
Thanks
dr3131

#45432 04/24/04 06:29 PM
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ummm ;\) \:\)


i only wanted to have some fun
#45433 04/24/04 07:34 PM
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Lordy, lordy, dr3131, please assure us that you either did your research or that you have a competent pro doing the work.

#45434 04/24/04 10:49 PM
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What seems to be the concern? I feel very confident in the people that I have digging the pond. I just have never been around ponds before and didn't know if I should have someone familar with stocking fish involved this early or wait until it is constructed/filled.

#45435 04/25/04 03:09 AM
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you did your research to educated the people who wanted to stop your pond , now with plenty of old pond boss mags and the books you can educated yourself to the basics to having a great pond ' the many diffs make ponding so great, you should of did your reseach before the blade hit the ground .. anybody can dig a hole ,few can make a pond . did you go check their work on other ponds and talk to the owners before they started ? stocking is the easiest ,theres plenty of info on stocking fish at this site. wish i would heard that before i started lol \:\)


i only wanted to have some fun
#45436 04/25/04 07:30 AM
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Ken,
I read all the info. the Soil and conservation had. I read the Ohio DNR info. I asked them questions and I truly trust them. How do I obtain copies of pond boss magazine? I am going to join today.
Thanks
dr3131

#45437 04/25/04 09:34 AM
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dr3131, Mike Otto wrote an outstanding article about making bottom structure. I think you will be glad you made islands, ridges, channels etc. They don't have to be huge. Variation in the bottom will help your fish and fishing as much as anything.


Norm Kopecky
#45438 04/26/04 04:50 PM
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DR3131,

Perhaps this is a bit premature at this point but I would suggest you check with your state conservation department to see if you need to obtain stocking permits prior to stocking your pond. NY requires a farm fish pond license before you can stock a pond.

Russ

#45439 04/26/04 05:12 PM
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Hi DR3131,
With regards to your sandy soils condition, I encountered the same problem. I hired a guy named Harmon Mansell to dig my pond. I found him on the web and learned a lot. He sealed my sandy soil with sodium bentonite. After he dug the hole, he spent a day on the dozer and mashed in a couple of tons with his cleats. Worked like a champ. One thing I learned, most pond builders are dirt pushers. Make sure you hire a guy that knows what he's doing, i.e. coring the dam. My neighbor two doors down built a pond at the same time, (Feb '04), and lined his with 4" of clay. It ain't holdin' jack. Best of luck.

Matt Patterson

Links: Harmon's site:
http://www.site-mart.com/mansells/bentonite.htm

Excellent Bentonite resource site:
http://www.malibuwater.com/PondBentonite.html


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