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A pressure gauge should be installed on every windmill aerator to determine how well it is producing air and if the air is reaching the diffuser under the ice. Higher pressure than 1/2 the depth indicates the airline is likely plugged which can commonly occur during ice conditions. There should be a freeze control or air pressure tank between the windmill and the water. This tank collects water condensate and provides a place to put the air gauge and an adjustable pressure relief valve to protect the air production mechanics during airline blockages.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/22/16 10:09 AM.

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Well unfortunately I do not have a pressure gauge or air pressure tank on it, but it does have a pressure relief vavle. Would condensation would be as much of a concern out there with the humidity being basically zero? The windmill lower down the mountain has no air tank or freeze control and has never frozen a line up. It had a hole open on this trip! It is 15 years old, doesn't get near the wind mine gets and isn't supposed to be anywhere near as good as my new Koenders double diaphragm! Go figure.

I will install an air pressure gauge on both units this summer when I am out there.


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There must be a reason why I live in Florida. When it dips down to the 30's at night I think I'm freezing. But I'm happy to watch you work azz off to save your fish!! Dan

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I've been to Florida... No thanks!!!

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Haha Thanks Dan


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WBJ - Let's look into the hydroelectric potential you have.

If you have flowing water year round, that could be much more reliable than solar, and water can still flow under ice and snow.

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Just saw your last post JKB, sorry about that.

I will try to figure out this year exactly what we have there for water.

In the meantime, looking at this tank for an air pressure tank on the windmill. I think it is a little big, but I couldn't find anything that was a better design. Thoughts?

http://freedomdieselperformance.com/train-horns/5-gallon-black-8-port-air-tank.html


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It is official! 33' double bellow American Eagle wind mill en route to Colorado right today! Gonna get some air in that lake one way or another! It may end up looking like a California wind farm before I am done!


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I don't know if an air tank is required, nor if it will do any good. Since you are working with an open system, I just don't know. The "compressor" would have to be pumping more air than the diffuser needed.


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I was thinking of the air tank as a better way to deal with condensation??? I don't think it's going to be possible to keep one of those alcohol rigs going all winter up there.

I actually don't even know how much condensation will form up there with such low humidity?

I am just trying to full proof the system this summer. No holes open this winter so trying to improve.


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Did you have the alcohol rig going this winter? Do you think a line froze, causing the no open ice this past winter?


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Turning the tank on its side and having the inlet and outlet come out the top would be one way to help goof proof the system, but I'm not 100% sure it's needed. But, all I can say is try it, it sure can't hurt anything!!


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I did not have the alcohol thing going this winter. Didn't have a guaranteed way to keep it full.

I also did not realize that on a windless day, without an inline pressure gauge, I would have zero information to determine if the system was even working or not. So, when I went to look at it this winter all I know is there was no hole open and no indication there had been a hole open.

Long story short, I don't know if there was a plugged line, some other malfunction or just too much snow/ice. I won't even know if the thing is working properly now or not until hopefully this Friday if my buddy can get in.

I am quickly learning that up there I need to eliminate every possible variable I can.

Sooo, I ordered a 5 gallon air tank made for train horns. It has 7 threaded fittings on it. Will work perfectly for an inline "condensation" tank. I can put an air in, pressure gauge, condensation drain on bottom, two lines out for summer diffusers and two lines for winter diffusers. No pvc manifold required!


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Perfect!

FYI, a client has had a problem with his 3/8" ID airline freezing up. Using one of those tanks, it used less than a quart of alcohol to keep the line thawed. One fill-up was good for 3 years and it probably could have gone through a 4th. I don't know how much was lost each summer.


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The tank is definitely overkill since you are only going to be dealing with less than 10 psi. The good thing is about it though is it already has multiple ports. From that aspect you could put one outlet with a shutoff valve to a deep diffuser for summer and another outlet for a shallow winter diffuser (doing away with the need to build a manifold).

The whole idea would be to keep the air in the tank as long as possible so the condensation ends up in the tank rather than in the outgoing line. So the bigger the tank is the better. Enter the air from the top and make sure there is a bottom drain (for water removal after the season).

You could use a traditional air water separator like used in shop air lines that would work much better but of course you A. are not there to dump it when it gets full and B. most are glass and would freeze up and bust. I don't know if what you need is made commercially.

If a person understood how commercial air moisture separators are made, a person might be able to have one welded up by a welder or modify a tank like shown to make it more effective. Most welders will not touch welding on an air tank, but where it is only exposed to less than 10 psi there would never be a problem with an explosion for even the worst of welders. Somehow the air needs to meander inside the tank via baffles so the air had time to drop the condensation.

We use drop tubes in our shop at the bottom of each air outlet. We have 1" steel pipe plumbed around the shop with drops for each air outlet. Then there is about 18" of additional pipe that drops down below each outlet that can fill up to 18" deep of water before any condensate would go out the air line as water. A shutoff valve on the bottom of each drop then lets us about once a month blow the water out the bottom. Not very much water comes out, but a little.

A person could make a radiator affair out of black pipe with appropriate drains. When you compress air it heats. It is the cooling of the air where the moisture precipitates out. That is the purpose of your air tank. Give the air time in the tank to cool down to ambient temperature to precipitate the water. The longer you can keep the air in the tank (by causing to flow around baffles or tubes), the better the water will come out of the air. My water trap drops closest to the compressor always collect the most water. That is where the air cools the most.

Those are just some rambling thoughts. Nothing very specific to help you, but maybe some ideas.

Last edited by snrub; 05/11/16 02:42 PM.

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Snrub I definitely appreciate the input and ideas!


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Did you get the stainless steel air tank? I use a 3 gallon version for my auto leveling system I installed on my truck. Stand the tank on it's end, and use the 3 outlets on one end, plus the drain fitting for four outlets. The center threaded fitting on the opposite end can be your drain port. On it's end, it could let nearly 5 gallons of water freeze before it fills and fails.



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This is the one I got. It does have one more port on the very end so it should work perfectly. I am going to check into having some sort of baffles put in if possible. I also wanted to add a high quality bypass valve. The bypass valve that came with the windmill seems like a piece of junk. Any ideas on what bypass valve would work?



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My buddy had to walk about a mile to get in to the cabin yesterday. Snow is still up to his waist in places on the road that get little sun. So far, it looks like a huge success! Only saw one dead trout! He was not able to put eyes on any living trout. Not sure how many more died, but in years past with big fish kills it was like a slaughter house up there when the ice came off. There are no animals tracks around the lake or any other evidence that a bunch of dead fish have been eaten.

The windmill is definitely still working. Towards the far side of the lake in one of the pics you can see a hole in the ice with a duck decoy in the middle. I am just going to try something different with the diffusers this year plus try the pipe trick to see if I can't keep a hole open in the ice. Combined with clearing more trees (to add even more wind) and the addition of a second windmill I think things can only improve from here.

Last year on June 10th we stocked 175 12" rainbows. I will probably only stock 100 this year. (I don't even really want the rainbows, but I do need to be SURE I have survival). To me, this seems like a very small number of fish. I am just concerned about the carrying capacity of the lake thru the winter and I am trying not to push it. Does that seem like pushing it to anyone? While it is a positive to have soooo much forage in the lake, I think all that forage also brings a lot of BOD to the table in the winter.

Thoughts?

P.S. This is the best I have ever seen or heard of this lake doing coming off a winter and I owe a TON of that to PB! This forum and the members of it (and one former member) have been a tremendous asset in working thru all of this!

Here is some of the walk up!











Last edited by wbuffetjr; 12/07/18 12:20 PM.

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If you zoom in close you can see a bunch of white foamy looking bubbles in this pic. What is that from?


Last edited by wbuffetjr; 08/08/17 09:06 AM.

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Well I am back from the wilderness. Ended up having a complete winter kill on the trout and I could not even find any crayfish left. Got the second windmill put up. What an adventure. Got a long reach coming up for three days next week to do some digging and increase our average depth! Going into this winter determined not to have another winter kill.

Here is a pic of what happens when you forget to take the bungie cord off of the blades before you stand it up (you send your brother in law up)! That is a 30' ladder extended all the way out.


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Sorry to read of your winterkill. Down here at 6500 elevation, we lost all of our trout, too, last winter. That's with the aerator running and a good hole open in the ice. It seems the rest of the fish survived-LMB, YP, BG, GSF, GC. Although, come to think of it, I haven't caught a single SMB this summer. We had few smallies however.
I guess you are coming back to Colorado for elk?
Roger

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Originally Posted By: 4CornersPuddle
Sorry to read of your winterkill. Down here at 6500 elevation, we lost all of our trout, too, last winter. That's with the aerator running and a good hole open in the ice. It seems the rest of the fish survived-LMB, YP, BG, GSF, GC. Although, come to think of it, I haven't caught a single SMB this summer. We had few smallies however.
I guess you are coming back to Colorado for elk?
Roger


Why do you think the Trout died? If that is happening to you at 6,500', it makes me question my chances of success at 10,000.

Yes sir, I will be back for Archery season! Haven't missed an archery season in 12 years now! I don't think I could make it through the rest of the year if I did!


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Just a thought...39 degree water sinks to the bottom of the pond. I'm wondering if the aeration is bringing that warm water up and super chilling the pond at those altitudes. Is temperature stratification your friend, not foe, and aeration is doing more harm than good? How cold can trout take? Just how cold does it get up there?

Ok so now I will go crazy and ask, ever thought about using your windmills to power surface melt type devices instead of aerators to just melt the snow and get sunlight to the pond without disturbing the "warm" water?

Last edited by Bill D.; 08/13/16 10:40 PM.

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Bill I am pretty sure my problem is DO. The lake winter killed almost every single year before I put up the first windmill. Also, DO measurements from last September came in really low. Pretty sure that is what I am battling. I still have a huge fathead population, but like I said even the crayfish seem to have winter killed. Not sure how bad things have to get for that to happen.I would also think that one windmill with two diffusers would have a hard time super chilling a lake the size of mine.

I am not sure how cold it gets up there, but I am going to find out for sure. I put up a Davis weather station this summer to get some wind and temp data. It will record all winter and I will retrieve the data next year.


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