Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Stocking before full pool reached

I think based on what happened at my pond I would get a huge forage base going before adding the preds. They are eating machines and can decimate the fat head population in a hurry

I am a firm believer that FHM swim around with the old sign from the 70's on their backs that says "Eat Me"! Gotta love those old Hippie FHM thou.

Wait to stock the LMB and see if you can't add another couple hundred bluegill. If you bluegill are 2-3" I don't think they will be doing a whole lot of spawning yet. You might need to wait to stock LMB until next summer. The longer you wait the better.

I have no worries waiting. I was worried about waiting to long and the BG getting out of hand. Will they do much to the FHM? I can always add more BG next time Fish Wagon is around. I was going to try and catch a few BG and see how big they've gotten. I just can't figure out what they're doing in that corner. I don't see them anywhere else except around a log or jumping away from shore, probably over the stumps. If I just waited until next year I should have BG spawning before the year is out plus more vegetation cover.

I caught a few bluegills and they are in the 5" range. I tried to shoot a video. I think this is spawning behavior. What do you think?

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/SoqnYkHX8Mw[/video]

Yep. Males guarding the nests they have prepared. They could be waiting for a suitable female to spawn with, or they could have already spawned and are guarding and fanning the eggs or guarding fry.

If you have a mask and snorkel, you can carefully slip into the water and observe up close. Just move slow and approach the nests slow. The BG may flee temporarily but will return promptly. Be prepared to get a nip or two from particularly aggressive males, trying to run you off.

Once you are there and hold still for a while, they will get used to you. Just pick a single nest to concentrate on, park your face about a foot or two from the nest, and lay there motionless. The male will dart away but will be back within a few seconds. If he does not come back, back off a little farther and he will. Then you can slowly advance as he gets braver with you.

I was snorkeling with a dive buddy at his vacation home in Cape Cod a couple weeks ago at one of the local glacier created ponds. We saw numerous Pumpkinseed on the nest, one with eggs in the bottom of the nest, and possibly another with fry. I could not tell if the one with fry belonged to the PS nearby or a LMB nearby. The fry were as small as knats. Aslo found a few LMB on the nests and one male LMB guarding a nest full of slightly larger fry. Were hundreds if not thousands.

Cool stuff. Get you a mask and snorkel and get right in there with them. Move carefully so as to not muck up the water. No need for fins cause all the action will be in water you can stand up in.

For anyone wanting to try the interaction with your spawning fish with a mask and snorkel, I have a few tips.

Be sure any mask you buy has a glass, not plastic, faceplate. Only the ultra cheap ones will be plastic and they are worthless. No way I know of to keep them from fogging up. If it says "tempered" it is glass.

When you get the mask home, take a tooth brush and tooth paste and scrub the glass. During mfg glass sometimes is left with a residue that will cause fogging. The glass needs to be ultra clean to not fog.

When you get to the water, either take some commercial anti-fog drops you can buy in a dive shop, or do the old fashion way and spit in the mask. Rub the drops or spit around vigorously until the glass squeaks. This means the glass is clean. Give it one dip in the water to rinse the cleaner or spit off. Don't use gobs of mask defog. Its purpose is to clean the lens, not coat it. Mask defog will actually make fogging worse if it is not rinsed off. Perfectly clean glass is glass that will not fog. Ok, enough long winded explanation of such a simple but needed task. A foggy mask sucks and you can't see much.

Get a snorkel so you are not constantly having to lift your head for air. With a snorkel you can comfortably lay your head in the water and observe motionless. Motionless is the key. Fish will get used to you and may even start checking you out. Safety tip: wear a tee shirt. Nipples look like something to eat to a bluegill. A large BG can give you quite an unpleasant surprise when least expecting it. One grandson did not listen when I suggested he swim with a tee shirt. Snorkels are made anything from a simple tube to fancy "dry" snorkels. The reality? It does not make a lot of difference. They all work.

You can get a marginally decent silicone mask from the big box stores with snorkel included for probably 25-40 bucks. They are quite ok for an occasional use. A really good mask and snorkel that will last for many years from a dive shop will set you back $75-125. You get what you pay for, but for just wanting to try something out, the package sets at the big box stores are servicable and not a bad deal for the occasional use.

For those of you who like to swim in your pond and like to observe fish in your pond, by all means in the warm weather take advantage of a mask and snorkel and interact with your fish. You will be glad you did! Males on the nest are the easiest time to observe them. They are much more spooked at other times and are much harder to view up close. The small fish seem to be easy to find about any time and will be pecking on your mask, ears, hair and where ever if you hold still. Holding still and letting the fish come to you is the key. Trying to approach or find a fish by swimming at it is hopeless.

Hope this helps.

I still haven't stocked the LMB but am still looking to do that this spring unless I should wait longer.

I've been reading more and more and now am wondering if I should be stocking more things. My goals are still to not have trophy anything. I'm just wanting a nice balance that supports lots of wildlife. My fingers are crossed the mallards and wood duck I have seen lately will stay around this year. I will harvest fish as needed, or let my neighbor do it.

Should I be looking at other types of minnows aside from the FHM that probably won't last after the LMB are in? What about grass shrimp or crayfish? Any other things along this line?

I know there was at least 1 large crayfish I dug up when the pond was first built by accident. I have no idea if there are anything in there now unless crayfish were responsible for cutting the leaves off my lilies! I never found the culprit but they quit getting cut towards the end of last summer. I wasn't paying much mind at the time but there were tons of crustacean looking tiny things around rock piles when the pond was filling. I don't see anything now. I'm not sure what those were.

I'm in central VA. I should probably stop trolling around on here and finding more things I should be getting into all the time around this pond!

You have had a BG spawn. You are a little north of some posting here so stocking is a bit different. I would suggest given your situation that you check reputable hatcheries in your area and look to buy 25 6 inch LMB. That is enough to start with. Be sure the hatchery knows you need about 50% males and females ie first stocking. IMO it is late given your situation and your area to stock 2 in LMB fingerlings. It could be done but the results would be highly variable. Not near as much risk at this point in stocking fewer but larger LMB.

What are the downsides stocking the fingerling LMB? Will the BG just overwhelm them since they will really be spawning this spring?

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good hatchery around central VA?

Thanks!

IP,

I'm bumping this question that you had because I think it is an excellent one. IMO now is the time to do that, instead of later when you have LMB already in the pond. I see you have rock piles, so I would stock crayfish. I would also stock another minnow species that will be more likely to survive than FHM. I don't know which one(s) would be best in your area. IMO scuds and/or grass shrimp would also be good additions.

I am not a pro but, hopefully, one will jump in with some good advice.

Good Luck! Exciting time!

Would the mix of snails, daphnia, and crayfish from Zetts be a good addition? I'm still holding out hope that painted turtles will show up on their own.

There can be several. They all have to do with the risk of an adverse situation arising from the stocking of 2 inch LMB (either to many LMB or to few even down to 0 surviving year 1). In northern ponds (you are likely in-between Northern and southern)BG tend to get ahead of LMB when stocked ahead which can lead to stunted BG populations or even no LMB recruitment as a result. If the BG are big they may even eat the 2 in LMB. In this situation the risk is high that you will end up not satisfied (either to many or to few LMB surviving to reproduce successfully). If you use larger but fewer LMB those risks are greatly reduced. A 6 inch LMB will likely survive while 2 inch you just don't know. If on the other hand all or most of the 2 inch LMB survive to reproduce you may quickly be overrun with LMB that are overcrowded.

Check on Dave Beasley here and tell him Pond Boss said call !

David Beasley
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/David-Beasley/1470201521

What exactly is LMB recruitment? I'm not sure I understand the concept. I looked it up and found neat articles but I'm still not sure I'm fully understanding. Basically though, I gather it's a crap shoot with the 2" LMB. It might work out great or I might end up with BG preying on them till they were gone or all of them survive on the abundant FHM and grow fast which would leave me with to many LMB. My thoughts had been to stock 50 fingerling bass but I'll try and get a hold of Dave if I can figure out the link.

I just want balance with fishing to remove the right amount to help maintain balance. A natural habitat with abundant wildlife and plants to enjoy is the goal.

Essentially, to me, recruitment is the spawning, stocking, replenishment and growing process of any fish or other species. Beasley can probably say it better. A 2 inch bass can be prey for big bluegills and it's a crap shoot. But, some generally survive predation, injury, etc.

Think of this. 98+% of all eggs laid never make it to spawning size fish. If you put a bunch of bass fingerlings in a grow out tank, they will eat each other.

In Texas, our problem is generally too much lmb survival and we come up with ponds that are lmb heavy and forage light. If you stock 50 you might get a dozen spawning machines or just possibly none. Due to long growing seasons, we have to start and continue culling bass after the 2nd year on new ponds.

As I understand it, "Recruitment" is the number of fish that survive to year 1 and beyond. If 1000 eggs hatch, but all the fry get eaten in the first year, that would be zero "recruitment". If only 10 out of the 1000 survive the first year, those 10 are the "recruitment".

"Recruitment" is simply one egg/fish living long enough to be an adult- reproduce (reproduction is an indicator of adulthood). It can be one year or longer (LMB up north) or shorter (a BG down south in some cases or tilapia). One fish living long enough to reproduce its own kind.

I contacted Dave Beasley at Solitude Lake Management and they just delivered and put in 50 4-5" LMB. 50/50 male/female. They we great to work with! I appreciate the recommendation. I got good information along with some good looking LMB!