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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
This is gonna be a great discussion. I've never considered the smaller pellets being easier to digest, but it seems as though it would be correct. I can't think there is that much difference in energy expense to feed on one pellet vs two, but I could obviously be wrong.
With that discussion probably goes the digestibility of the pellets in regard to glycemic index, insulin production and the longevity/health of fish? But maybe their digestive system works differently than humans in that regard? With humans, high glycemic index foods are ones that digest rapidly, like white bread. That causes blood glucose to spike, which causes insulin to spike, which, if continued, causes insulin resistance. If fish are similar to us, it is better for them to feed heavily once or twice a day rather than moderately four or five times. At least, in terms of fatty liver & lifespan. But I don't know if their digestive system is that similar to ours.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
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In an Aquaculture setting, they feed a smaller pellet size to prevent shooters and to grow all the fish at roughly the same rate, because the fish are all the same age. Less grading, less stress on the fish, faster fish growth and less labor. No concerns about the fish getting the correct food because it's a monoculture and they eat what is thrown in the tank.
I am not a biologist, chemist, or anything similar. Just a guy messing around with growing out tilapia as a hobby. I think "prevent" is not the right word, and you probably know that, just pointing it out. Perhaps minimize? I can give you my experience, and it would be curious to hear Cecil's ( -or Rainman?)experience on this too. I get shooters when I feed all the same size food. So much so, that they are truly ten times bigger than the others, and get to the point that I need to pull them out because they start killing off the smaller ones, possibly just out of aggressiveness. Even tho the feed is all the same they go around and suck up and keep others away from the feed. Why wouldn't the same happen in a pond? Now take the same brood of fish. Introduce a larger pellet along with what you had been feeding. Some of those bigger fry will go after the larger food, some are "stuck" on feeding the smaller size. So some of those shooters really outperform. Then some of the small ones, if big enough, take to the larger pellet too. They quickly catch up to the shooters that are still stuck on the smaller food. I have found that some fish get stuck on a certain size feed, even tho they can take bigger. The only way I have found to get them off is to switch their environment and then give them a larger pellet. If I try to just stop their normal feed, go to a bigger one, a lot seem to starve. Change of environment seems to trigger something to change feeding habits. Like I said, just my simple observations as to size of pellets, growth, and possible relationship of the two, in tilapia.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146 |
Quick question. I fed one bag of skrettig steelhead floating pellets for my small perch (purchased at the fish farm as that was what they were using) I'm thinking about small vs large pellets and floating vs sinking... When I confirm my RES have survived and they start taking pellets I'm very interested in buying some Optimal. But for now, I need some affordable all purpose food as probably the goldfish will vacuum up most of it. I'm thinking a variety of sizes and floating and sinking wouldn't be that fussy for the perch. I think even though they WERE pellet trained, they tend to eat the pellets as they sink and let the goldfish grab the surface ones. So there is a Family Farm and Home close to my work that is selling an Armada type food. I can't find info on size, mix of sizes? but it says floating: Armada fish food at $16.99 for 40 pounds I can't imagine there is much of anything worthwhile in there beyond the fillers? This is their only other offering: Aquamax DENSE At this point most of the feed goes to training goldfish and then using for bait in my traps to remove the goldfish so cheap and multipurpose is OK for now. I see there is a tractor supply on the other end of town that sells sportsman choice if I drive across town. They have 3 options, search results for fish food at TSC
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,497 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,497 Likes: 266 |
The immense variety of cultured finfish species hampers efforts to simplify production industry wide. Approximately 170 taxa are currently cultured, including carnivores, herbivores, planktivores, and omnivores, each posing its own set of nutritional demands . Fish digestive systems include those of carnivores, herbivores, planktivores, and omnivores so each type is different .
Why not buy some of several types of food and mix it .
Last edited by ewest; 03/25/16 09:35 AM.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146 |
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196
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Joined: Jun 2011
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The buying feed and mixing I have thought might be a all around good Idea.
My questions in my mind were, if I buy three different size feeds and one sinker in a medium size, mix and distribute from one feeder might be OK and then said, what if I bought three feeders and put them far enough apart there was minimal over lap of feed pattern. Then there would not(maybe) be the same competition from the various class sizes of fish!?
In short, I have not utilized that feed system due to the idea above. What are others thoughts on mixing a distributing in one place? What about multiple feeders with various sizes of feed? A waste of time and money or do people already do that a lot? Any studies or white papers on that?
ewest, great info on water temp and feed utilization, and other info on multi species that are hard to talk about in a general way, thanks. I for the most part am posting on CNBG but do not always say that and I should.
Life is more fun with a pole in your hand.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058 Likes: 7
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058 Likes: 7 |
I am no pro nor pretend I am but I have been feeding two different sizes of feed from my second year.
I have observed my shiners taking the 2.5mm feed and not the 6mm feed. So I use the high fat content 2.5mm feed that sinks for the shiners and crayfish that will pick the floor clean. The 6mm is floating that is lower in fat and the perch seem to love.
The emerald shiners are lighting fast and when the feeder gos off they will bait ball flash under the feeder taking the small high fat 2.5mm feed. They will not take the floating feed that I have seen. Wanting these emerald shiners to do very well in our pond we have kept up with the smaller pellet with the larger pellet.
Only thing we need to do is mix the feed and once a week mix the feed in the feeder. The vibrations from the feeder or wind seem to settle the smaller feed to the bottom first.
Cheers Don.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
In an Aquaculture setting, they feed a smaller pellet size to prevent shooters and to grow all the fish at roughly the same rate, because the fish are all the same age. Less grading, less stress on the fish, faster fish growth and less labor. No concerns about the fish getting the correct food because it's a monoculture and they eat what is thrown in the tank.
I am not a biologist, chemist, or anything similar. Just a guy messing around with growing out tilapia as a hobby. I think "prevent" is not the right word, and you probably know that, just pointing it out. Perhaps minimize? I can give you my experience, and it would be curious to hear Cecil's ( -or Rainman?)experience on this too. I get shooters when I feed all the same size food. So much so, that they are truly ten times bigger than the others, and get to the point that I need to pull them out because they start killing off the smaller ones, possibly just out of aggressiveness. Even tho the feed is all the same they go around and suck up and keep others away from the feed. Why wouldn't the same happen in a pond? Now take the same brood of fish. Introduce a larger pellet along with what you had been feeding. Some of those bigger fry will go after the larger food, some are "stuck" on feeding the smaller size. So some of those shooters really outperform. Then some of the small ones, if big enough, take to the larger pellet too. They quickly catch up to the shooters that are still stuck on the smaller food. I have found that some fish get stuck on a certain size feed, even tho they can take bigger. The only way I have found to get them off is to switch their environment and then give them a larger pellet. If I try to just stop their normal feed, go to a bigger one, a lot seem to starve. Change of environment seems to trigger something to change feeding habits. Like I said, just my simple observations as to size of pellets, growth, and possible relationship of the two, in tilapia. Personally, I've never heard of pellet size having anything to do with shooters. Shooters are usually just feed hogs and depending on species, cannibalistic, so I can't imagine smaller pellets would slow a shooter's rapid growth much, if at all. Smaller pellets could sure help less aggressive (and smaller) feeding fish grab a bite extra though. As for Tilapia, If growing them, they are fed to satiation several times a day. If holding Tilapia, they are fed barely enough to maintain an immune system and to prevent all growth possible.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692 |
CC - If you want some Optimal BG feed to try, I could drop some off. Got some of the latest with the 3 sizes a few weeks ago. It's sealed and in cold storage at the moment, which they said it's good for a good year. Have to buzz up north to reprogram a dam that never worked, but should be back at a place in GR close to you in about 4 weeks. Let me know.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146 |
JKB, Thanks for the offer! Why don't you PM me when you are closer to knowing the timing of when you will be back in GR. I may or may not have living sunfish left in the pond but it was my intention to buy some optimal and try some when the weather warmed up. I'm happy to pay you for it if you are sure you have some to spare.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
I am no pro nor pretend I am but I have been feeding two different sizes of feed from my second year.
Only thing we need to do is mix the feed and once a week mix the feed in the feeder. The vibrations from the feeder or wind seem to settle the smaller feed to the bottom first.
Cheers Don. Thanks! I mix my feed sizes and hadn't thought about that.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692 |
JKB, Thanks for the offer! Why don't you PM me when you are closer to knowing the timing of when you will be back in GR. I may or may not have living sunfish left in the pond but it was my intention to buy some optimal and try some when the weather warmed up. I'm happy to pay you for it if you are sure you have some to spare. Just ordered a bag from Scott (esshup) to send to you. Let us know how it works! I believe if you had any sunfish in prior, they are still there.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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OP
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841 |
In an Aquaculture setting, they feed a smaller pellet size to prevent shooters and to grow all the fish at roughly the same rate, because the fish are all the same age. Less grading, less stress on the fish, faster fish growth and less labor. No concerns about the fish getting the correct food because it's a monoculture and they eat what is thrown in the tank.
I am not a biologist, chemist, or anything similar. Just a guy messing around with growing out tilapia as a hobby. I think "prevent" is not the right word, and you probably know that, just pointing it out. Perhaps minimize? Yes, you are absolutely correct. Minimize or inhibit?
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,898 Likes: 146 |
JKB, Thanks for the offer! Why don't you PM me when you are closer to knowing the timing of when you will be back in GR. I may or may not have living sunfish left in the pond but it was my intention to buy some optimal and try some when the weather warmed up. I'm happy to pay you for it if you are sure you have some to spare. Just ordered a bag from Scott (esshup) to send to you. Let us know how it works! I believe if you had any sunfish in prior, they are still there. JKB, I certainly didn't deserve this awesome gift and I certainly feel a debt of gratitude to you. The generosity of folks on this forum is what makes it so great. I certainly will share mine with anyone who would like to try optimal in their pond. My brother in law would like to try some and my friend who supplies me with tilapia from his aquaculture hobby will certainly be getting an email from me now encouraging him to give the Optimal a try if he is interested in doing pellet feeding of any type. If any other SW Michigan lurkers are around and would like to try some please let me know. If you are in the area, my wife tried her hand at making maple syrup for the first time this year and you are more than welcome to take some of our Vintage-2016 Maple Syrup, first run syrup, home with you in exchange I will keep you all posted on the Optimal trial.
Last edited by canyoncreek; 03/25/16 09:17 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841 |
I received the note from JKB.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315 |
Personally, I've never heard of pellet size having anything to do with shooters. Shooters are usually just feed hogs and depending on species, cannibalistic, so I can't imagine smaller pellets would slow a shooter's rapid growth much, if at all. Smaller pellets could sure help less aggressive (and smaller) feeding fish grab a bite extra though. As for Tilapia, If growing them, they are fed to satiation several times a day. If holding Tilapia, they are fed barely enough to maintain an immune system and to prevent all growth possible.
Yes, shooters are fast growing fish because they are pellet hogs ( I think we both agree on that). However my point is, give a shooter smaller pellets and a brother/sister (that is not a shooter and much smaller) larger size pellet, and I have found the they catch up to the shooter. That to me is a first hand experience of pellet size makes a difference.
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