Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Ice out!

TJ,

Are your RES dying from low O2 or temps? Temps, right?

No additional morts to report tonight.

Really good question Bo - I am assuming it is temperature related, but have often wondered if low DO events due to snow cover might drive RES upwards in the water column seeking higher concentrations of DO, which, unfortunately for them, is also much colder water, to the degree it's lethal. We are nearing the Northern range of RES in Nebraska - I anticipate some morts every Winter, just hope they aren't "special" fish like Shorty's was.

TJ, it has crossed my mind that those two "special" RES might have been from one of the small groups of RES that I overwintered in my aquarium over the last couple of years. None of them were ever exposed to extreme cold when they were young, this might have made them less winter hardy when they were released at a larger size. The RES that I overwintered were all 9" plus when released without ever having experienced a Nebraska winter. Could this have made them less cold tolerant? Just the nature v. nuture debate running in the back of my head.

Absolutely makes sense to me

Guys,

Not redears of course but I bring in YOY bluegill and yellow perch every winter and they are reared in 78 F. water. The following winters they are in the pond. I'm thinking if they have time to adapt over the summer and fall, they are O.K. It doesn't seem to be a problem with them.

Of course you're right you are at the northern end of a redears range as am I. The best survival we have here is in the deep natural lakes that have more stable temps.

You may also want to consider most redears that are planted in ponds are from Arkansas fish wholesalers as are most bluegills. Could it be they are not adapted to our winters? A couple of winters ago we had bluegills in fish farm ponds dying in the winter. It was a very severe long winter with 24 days below zero. I know one fish farmer that said he had never lost bluegills like that and he did everything right.

Shorty:

I have RES in a cage in the pond. The cage is 3' square and 4' deep, and the cage is at the end of the pier in 10'-12' of water. Matt didn't get here in time to transfer them to one of his ponds (they were feed trained on Optimal and are the start of selective breeding for pellet trainability) before ice locked in my pond.

I checked the cage when the ice left the pond earlier this week and while there were some morts., the majority of them survived the winter. The pond was ice covered for about 2 - 2 1/2 months. Since they were in the cage, they couldn't get any deeper in the pond than 3 1/2' from the ice.

This area is approximately the northern edge of RES in public waters. Most public waters have both RES and PS in them here. The local lake has had RES in it since it was restocked in 1969, and it hasn't been restocked by the state since.

I think that the longer that you have RES in your pond, they will become more cold tolerant. Each generation will have cold tolerant survivors, and the overall cold tolerance of the RES in the pond will improve. I don't think you have to worry about aerating in the winter, providing you place the diffuser in the correct depth. I would rather have the option of turning it on and opening up the pond than to take a chance on a DO crash if the winter is bad.

Just to add to the discussion, I have ice anglers tell me while they can get bluegills to bite, many times they observe redears that seem to have lockjaw. This is viewing with a camera.

Another night, no additional morts to report.

Most of my initial stocking of RES came from Hartley Fish Farms in KS, I did a small secondary stocking of RES from the fish truck that likely came from Arkansas.

A few interesting notes from this 1984 publication.

http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/hsi/hsi-079.pdf

That explains a lot!

I wonder if increasing salinity would help?

It wouldn't hurt, from the same literature RES appear to be very tolerant of higher salinity.

The first few fish of 2016 caught this moring, water temps should still be in the 40's.

Wow, nice Smallie, Shorty!

And not to sound too dumb, but what is the top pic?

The top picture is a 6-7" golden shiner.

The first SMB was 11 to 12", the second one was 13-1/2 to 14", nothing big but it confirms that I didn't have significant winter kill under the ice. I have soaked a nightcrawler every evening for the last few days and caught nothing until this morning.

It's been on and off for me as well and so far only BG, but I've only tried with small plastics on an ultra light and the little marshmallow power baits. Time to break out the nightcrawlers!

I need to learn more about the golden shiners but I don't know if/how they would survive in my pond or if it would be the right thing to do. I'll check the archives and do some research.

Sure is encouraging to catch that first fish after ice out

A few more.

9-10" GSH


An elusive cold water RES.



7-8" YP

I like GSH with SMB because most of the adults GSH will be too large for the SMB to eat, at least for a few years so there will always be new forage in the pond.

Large GSH do go well with SMB but they don't seem to play well with YP. The small number of YP I have are either average or below average body condition. I probably should thin down some of my large GSH.

I walked the pond with a flashlight last night checking shallow water. I have good numbers late hatch RES that made it through the winter in the 1" to 1-1/4" size.

In the absence of a predator with a large enough mouth gap to control adult GSH, I wonder if the large GSH can over populate and cause a problem in the future as gizzard shad have done in some BOWs. I read in another thread recently where the shad made up something like 60% of the fish biomass in one lake.

Bill, I am pretty sure that the presence of good numbers of 6 to 7" GSH in my pond have significantly reduced recruitment of SMB and YP, is that a bad thing? I'm not sure why my RES bucked that trend last year. Both of the SMB I caught yesterday are not part of my original stockers so I have seen some recruitment, my original SMB stockers should have no problem eating 6 to 7" GSH.

Ice has been off for about a week here in WV.

Nice set up and area Todd.. How far are you from Kecksburg?

Keith I think GSH could be a valuable additional forage source for your bg/lmb/hsb fishery, but you may not need them depending on the wr of your lmb. Call me anytime if you want to chat and compare notes I am happy to help if I can. I order gsh a few times annually and could add you on. Just holler.

Thanks, TJ. I've had some LMB above and some below WR. My forage base (BG) seems to be okay as I've seen and caught plenty in the 6" and less range. But the way it sounds, the GSH could be a good boost for the LMB and HSB. Once I learn my fate here I'll know better of how to proceed for this year, so hopefully I'll be reaching out.

No worries, here anytime. How's your cray population? Have you established grass shrimp yet?