Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Small pond attempt

Hi, first of all I'd like to send a huge thanks to everyone who has worked to put this site together. The information on here is immensely helpful. While I haven't seen or read something pertaining exactly to my situation, the questions and even more so the answers have been very helpful, and will likely save me time and money. I have been inspired by your stories and persistence. Thanks again!

So here's the deal with my potential pond:

I bought a house on 1.25 acres in NW GA this past August. On my second time mowing my yard during a dry spell (2-3 weeks of very little to no rain) I noticed a small stream, possibly originating from a spring I thought. I was very surprised to see so much water running due to so little rain. It is running through a small valley on the densely wooded part of my property. I had joked with my wife when we were looking to buy the house that this little valley would be the site of our future pond. Little did I know it seems to be set up perfectly for a small pond...I'll let you guys be the judge of that...I'll get to the specifics in a moment.

Due to my work schedule, my magnetic attraction to poison oak, and my attempt to minimize the chances of any impromptu snake meetings, I didn't have much time to pursue further investigation until late October. As the 6-8ft tall underbrush started to die off, I went down to find the source (at least on my property) of this stream. As I went down and followed I noticed it was coming from several spots slightly above me which enter into one ditch and then enters my property. It is runoff from my 2 neighbors way behind me, partly from the valley as it continues up the hill, and partly about a .25 acre pond runoff flowing into this ditch which widens out when it hits my property under the neighbors driveway. As far as how it leaves my property, it goes under the road and widens out a bit on the other side eventually draining into a very small creek a winding 1000yds away or so. My property ends at the road.

So, as more of the brush started to die off I went in and basically manhandled it with lopping and pruning shears and my lawnmower like a bushog. Once the brush was gone I could tell someone had possibly tried to make a small pond at some point. A dam was constructed but they had four 55 gallon hollowed steel drums end to end going through the middle of it. I'm not sure of the purpose, but I do know this was all cattle farm property 15+ years ago, so perhaps they wanted a small watering hole, and/or needed to get equipment across.

The low lying area was filled with leaves, driftwood, and a generous layer (8-12"+) of black muck, with another thinner layer of blackened decaying leaves and driftwood under that. I have been methodically removing all this by shovel over the past couple of weeks. I would love to be able to get a mini backhoe in but it will be a while before that is possible with the weather. In addition to that, I dug the barrels out of the dam and removed most of the small trees on the dam. The other trees' days are numbered. Now I have a gaping hole where the barrels once were.

I have dreamed of having my own pond for as long as I can remember and now although it will be a tiny puddle compared to what 98% of others on here are working with, it will be mine nonetheless. With my space constraints I would just like to have a small "bream" pond my 3 kids can enjoy for years to come. Maybe a LMB or 2 for me too.

And now the questions:

First of all does this sound like something I should continue to pursue?

Given the info on the dam what would be the recommended way to close the dam back up once I dig out the rest of the pond with a mini backhoe?

Would a concrete primary spillway work in this situation?

Thank you in advance!

With a smaller pond like yours, a concrete spillway may be overkill, though you should still have a vegetated emergency spillway. Instead I would install a bottom-fed siphon system for maintaining normal flow through and level. It will have the benefit of removing some debris from the pond bottom from the woods such as leaves when in siphon mode. You will need to put something over the end in the bottom to keep it from clogging up.

This is definitely conceivable, many of us have small garden ponds also. Would it be possible to rent a larger backhoe and get some decent depth to the pond to increase chances of having a steady population of fish? Too small or shallow in dry weather or a period of high temperatures may result in problems. Depth can help if width cannot be accomplished, though you cannot go too steep on the banks, something like 2:1 max slope.

Welcome to Pond Boss!

Could you get a dozer and roller in there and make it at least 1/6 acre? A friend has a pond that size, about 10-12 feet deep, and has a nice bluegill population in it.

Thanks for replies. Yes I was thinking the concrete may be overkill myself, but I was just thinking of using it because I am far more experienced with concrete than constructing a dam with proper coring and such, especially one that is already breached due to my efforts in removing the barrels. Secondly it was for aesthetics, since this area is visible from my driveway. But I am certainly open to all suggestions.

I have studied this area constantly over the past few months. Before removing the barrels, which were heavily clogged with leaves and muck, and crushed, I noticed as rainfall picked up the barrels would not be able to release enough water and there is an emergency spillway that either was created originally or has occurred naturally over time. I will get grass growing there soon...another area i can actually handle. I really like your idea of the bottom fed siphon system but trying do it correctly myself Is at least a little intimidating.

A larger backhoe or dozer could probably be used but I'm just afraid that either might bog down unless I wait for a drought period, As well as the footprint it might leave on my yard to get there. I could easily be wrong, but I don't know that normal compacting will even be necessary because of the way water sits on this soil at all levels. There is what seems to be very good clay just about 1.5ft down. If I got down to a point of no clay of course I would put some back in to seal it up and compact then.

Now that i see a pond may be possible, I'll tell you what I had in mind. Feel free to correct me.

As of now only one side would be accessible with a any size backhoe. I was going to leave the stream side as is basically because I wouldn't be able to reach it with a smaller backhoe. This would serve as a shelf so to speak on the far side. Once dammed up I would say the stream bed would be under at least 2.5 ft of water at full pool. The other side (digging side) slopes fairly gently uphill. I was going to dig as deep as possible on this side, working backwards uphill (with a 2:1 edge.) I'm assuming I could get it down to the 6-8 ft range. At full pool I'm guesstimating it would add 3-4 ft at least on top in this area. That would hopefully give me the 10-12ft desired depth. The deeper area would be roughly 100-110 ft long and 60ft at the widest point, and rounding to 20ft or so on each end. The total width would be about 75-80ft, with a total length of about 140ft. I'm not sure what that equates to in acreage. The overall shape will be more oval if anything.

Any further guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Also I'd be glad to send pics to anyone who is interested.

In case you have not seen it, here is a thread with links to a number of different specialty ponds, some very small.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=397375

Might get some ideas from some of those ponds.

Edit: This one is about very small ponds http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=407695#Post407695

Thanks Snrub. I had read most of those but there were a couple I had not yet read.

My pond is in nearly pure clay and leaks because we didn't compact it properly. I had not yet joined PB and let the dozer owner tell me he could compact it enough with the dozer since it is all clay.

Thanks for the advice John F. What type of pond is yours?

Lots of good ideas so far. RE the poison ivy, spray it when it starts to emerge. I use Remedy on it.

It is a 1/4 acre oval farm pond 11 ft deep when full.
General purpose fishing pond.

John: Ok so similar but considerably larger than mine. Is it an embankment or dug out, or groundwater, etc? I'm just curious as you may have encountered some other things I need to take into account. Thanks

About 1/2 the depth is dug out and half embankment. When it gets full past the dug out portion, then I am having the detectable leaks. It is a watershed pond, hopefully not connected to groundwater. I am thinking the leaks may be due to roots left in the original dam during renovation late last summer. It has drained down about 14 inches below the emergency spillway now, and the leaks have slowed. I have a two inch, approx 3400 gallon per hour gas powered pumping system to fill it, but won't use it again until I stop the leaks or it gets low enough to endanger the fish, because it is ultimately futile. If I had it to do over, I would have had the dozer guy get a sheepsfoot roller, but he said it wasn't necessary in my heavy, nearly pure clay.

John I can understand your frustration of having the difficulty with basically pure clay and your builder telling you it'd be ok. I appreciate you sharing that with me.

Dave Davidson: please forgive my ignorance but is "remedy" a name brand of an herbicide? I think I can just see poison oak/ivy and get it. I'd love a more effective and less toxic way to get rid of it than roundup.


Anyone with some ideas here:

I could be wrong, but I think I'm going to have more trouble controlling getting enough water out as opposed to not enough in. The stream that will feed my pond comes from several runoff ditches, a spring further up the ridge from me and a .25 acre pond right behind me which all converge into one when they enter my property. I also will have watershed from 3/4 my front yard, my side yard, and over half of my back yard including gutters. The potential spot is also in a low lying area that may or may not be holding a considerable amount of groundwater now. If you looked at a cross cut of my surroundings it would be kind of a terraced situation where I'm in the middle of 3 terraces.

Any more help would be appreciated...

Do you know what kind of fish are in the 1/4 acre behind you? Sounds like during a big rain event the fish from there can move to your pond? Any fish in the small creek?

Bill: I've talked to my neighbor with the pond behind me, he's a real nice guy, told me I could fish it anytime, but I haven't been able to take him up on it. He said it has mainly LMB and a variety of "bream" as most people here in my parts call every sunfish but bass, and probably some type of cats. He said they had a bad fish kill a couple summers ago and lost a lot of everything, so he doesn't really know what's really left. He and his family don't fish it much. I can't say fish haven't/won't wash down, but looking at his spillway I doubt much if anything would. But I'm fine with any of those species if they do make it down.

Sounds like your goal for the pond is to just have a place to catch a few fish and not worry? If so, that's like my pond!

How big will the pond be and how deep? Do you have a plan on what to do with the soil you remove? An amazing amount of soil can come out of even a small pond. If you will need to remove it from the property, I would check into that expense before proceeding to see if it fits your budget.

Actually I should have capitalized it: REMEDY

Unlike a lot of stuff, it isn't a restricted product YET. I mix it with a general purpose surfactant or my favorite mix is diesel.

Bill: yes my goal is simply a spot for my 3 young kids (4,3, &1.5) to learn to fish. They all love being outside and nature. They're all 3 itching to go with me on my bass boat but momma's not ready. I haven't yet set my mind on what exactly I'll stock (I've read pretty much every post on here about stocking) but likely some type of BG/HBG + few LMB. Certainly not the trophy bass ponds like I dream of after reading about on here. Sorry, I'm a newbie so I haven't learned how to cut and paste an earlier post but If you go up about 15 posts I described size and digging plans. The dirt removed I can use all around my property so that shouldn't be an issue.

Dave: thanks I may have to try that fix this spring.

I'm going to attempt to add some pics..suggestions are welcome

Here's some pics of the area as I started clearing away brush

Some pics of the stream

Here's a closer look at where I'm at with it currently. As stated earlier I plan to deepen and widen the area. A few of the trees will be removed as well. Again any suggestions or guidance is welcome. The black muck on the side will be moved soon.

What is the current measurement of the body of water in the previous two pictures? It appears quite small, but I cannot tell scale.

Right now it looks like a breeding pool for mosquitoes. But you have mentioned deepening and widening. I would make the surface area as large as I could with factors in play recognized (such as property lines, etc.). Once you have the pond size on paper you can calculate the volume of water and you can identify which species of fish may do well.

Bass lover: I'm not sure of the current measurements, but I'd say it's probably less than a fourth of the total surface area I'm going try to get to when I rent some equipment. Way too wet now, but it's ok as I'm gaining good advice while I wait for it to dry out. The last two most current pics posted are just what I have dig out with a shovel by myself. The little cement board and rock dam was just messing around more less. To try to gauge how much water flows through the stream.