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#431421 12/12/15 03:35 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyalella_azteca
This is a forage critter that I hadn't heard of before. It's described as being common in North America, but its numbers are declining. It appears to be in about the same place in the food chain as scud and close to grass shrimp. I don't know if it has a common name. If I could get some, I'd put them in my pond. I'm wondering if anyone has info on these, and if they have been discussed previously on the Forum.

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Very common type of scud, fish love to eat them.



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The scud I've ordered are Gammarus lacustris. I came across H. azteca while looking up scud, so I should have figured it's another kind of scud. Do you know if they can be purchased, and if so where?

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I have no idea if they can be purchased, you might be able to collect some by flipping rocks over at a nearby lake.

Here is one I found while raking FA at my dad's old pond.






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FWIW I have located a large but shallow bay in a nearby lake that is choked with vegetation. My plan is to take my long handled skim net and see what I can catch next summer. Hopefully, will find scuds and/or grass shrimp. I figure it can't hurt to try.


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A quick google search and this site say that they sell them. Looks like they are located in Fort Collins, Co.

http://www.aquaticbiosystems.com/



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Certian gamerus live in the sale climates as your "aztecs" the gamerus get larger and are more politic in my area.


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Looks like your area is Sturgis. I shipped my broken down motorcycle out of there once, and then hitch hiked back to California. Years later, I worked all around the Black Hills, mostly on the WY side.

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I've just ordered Daphnia pulex, D. magna, and Hyallela azteca from Sachs Aquasystems: http://www.aquaculturestore.com/home.php

It's the same outfit that sells the pickerel.

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Originally Posted By: Turtlemtn
I've just ordered Daphnia pulex, D. magna, and Hyallela azteca from Sachs Aquasystems: http://www.aquaculturestore.com/home.php

It's the same outfit that sells the pickerel.



Hey Turtlemtn,

What's the plan for the scuds? Are you going to tank raise some from a starter batch or introduce them directly to the pond?


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I'm getting only 30. I will probably split them between a small aquarium in the house and the pond. My little pond in the front yard is frozen pretty solid. If it's thawed when they come, I may put some in there too. I should also have a cup of Gammarus coming soon. Don't know how many individuals that will be, but probably a lot more. I'll do likewise with those.

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Hyalella have a hard time maintaining decent numbers or even surviving when panfish are common density and submerged plants are less than common.


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Bill,

Do Gammarus lacustris fare any better? I am struggling to get some vegetation established in my pond and I have very little detritus material as the trees on the property are not near the pond. Pretty much FA and decaying brush piles at this point.


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I'm going to keep trying with the vegetation. I'm figuring out what I want to try and finding sources for them. With the plants and the crustaceans I'm pretty much in the experimental stage. I may buy another small aquarium or two tomorrow. I have fathead minnows in a 10 gal aquarium now. I'm wondering if they can spawn in it. Scud and Daphnia are supposed to be okay together in the same tank or pond. At worst, it's something to mess with during the winter.

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Same here man. You have a few days left on the aquarium sale at Petco of a $1/gallon if you want to pick up a tank or two. The FHM should spawn in a 10 gallon if you give them correct spawning habitat. Give them 12 to 14 hours of light a day though to help induce spawn. IMO don't put too many in a 10. 6 to 8 is plenty. I just picked up 6 Rosy Reds (Basically pink FHM) and put them in a 10. Yes they were expensive...91 cents! Got them at a pet shop and they were pretty emaciated and only about 1.5 inches. Hitting them with a 46% feed and they look a whole lot better after only 3 days. I'll give them a month or so to "grow up" then increase the photoperiod to 14 hours and go for a spawn. I have a 20 gallon waiting as a grow out tank for the newbies when they appear.

In the spring all the Rosys will hit the pond as snacks, and I will try raising BNM or SFS or....

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I bought a pound of FHM and saved out a few for the aquarium. Only one in the tank has died since summer. Initially, one was about 3x the size of the rest, but they have all grown, and a couple are about as big as the big one. I've put only a coffee cup on its side, a small eel grass plant, and big sea shell in with them. They fight over who gets to be in the cup. The big ones are turning black, and I guess that's an indication they want to spawn. I feed them half goldfish flake food and half tropical fish flake food. They also chew on the plant, and I added some pond water and the water has a bit of a yellow-green cast. I had put the bulk of the minnows in a 95 gal stock tank during the summer and fall. Quite a few died until I added pond water, and after that, only a few died.

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IMHO Prime spawning habitat for FHM is flat horizontal surfaces. If you have too high a density they may not spawn. Water quality will be best with less than 10 in such a small tank. I would think that reducing male competition for your only habitat will also help. IMO I would add a few flat stones supported by 3 or 4 other stones making caves.

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Thanks for the tip. I'm not very handy, or imaginative.

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The males get black heads and "horns" on the top of their head.


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esshup #434930 01/19/16 10:23 AM
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FWIW I used to work in a lab where we bred fathead minnows for testing, we had minnows in 10 gallon aquariums in groups of 4. 3 females and 1 male. The only thing in the tanks were two pieces of 4" PVC pipe cut in half to create a kind of cave. The females would lay their eggs under the PVC tiles and the males would fertilize and guard the eggs. We would remove the tiles with eggs daily to keep the adults from eating the newly hatched fry. If ever two males were in the same tank they would destroy the eggs from each other's nests. After removing the tiles with eggs it would take about 2 weeks for them to hatch. We fed the babies newly hatched brine shrimp for a couple weeks and then ground up fish flakes after that. I'm sure this isn't the only way to breed fatheads but I thought I'd offer my experience. Daily spawns of 20-100 eggs were not uncommon.

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How visible are the eggs? Is it easier to tell they're there if the tiles are cut shorter? Should the tiles be some particular length? Thanks for the info.

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We used halves of pipes about 6" long. We would keep the tiles at the front of the tank and everyday walk around with a flashlight and check for eggs. At first they are just little clear bubbles but after a few days you'll be able to see the fry forming. I'm not sure daily removal of the eggs is necessary but for our tests we had to have fish <24 hours old so it was important to know the age of the eggs. We had 24 ten gallon aquariums going at all times to ensure a constant supply of newborn fry. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted By: Kartracer00
FWIW I used to work in a lab where we bred fathead minnows for testing, we had minnows in 10 gallon aquariums in groups of 4. 3 females and 1 male. The only thing in the tanks were two pieces of 4" PVC pipe cut in half to create a kind of cave. The females would lay their eggs under the PVC tiles and the males would fertilize and guard the eggs. We would remove the tiles with eggs daily to keep the adults from eating the newly hatched fry. If ever two males were in the same tank they would destroy the eggs from each other's nests. After removing the tiles with eggs it would take about 2 weeks for them to hatch. We fed the babies newly hatched brine shrimp for a couple weeks and then ground up fish flakes after that. I'm sure this isn't the only way to breed fatheads but I thought I'd offer my experience. Daily spawns of 20-100 eggs were not uncommon.


Can you explain about the tiles and where they are located in relation to the PVC caves? The FHM in my pond would have laid the eggs on the ceiling of the PVC caves. Sounds like yours were laying them on tiles?


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I also participated in raising FMH for NPDES toxicity testing in Pittsburgh. Kartracer used words of cut pipe, caves, and tiles all as the same thing. Pieces of 4" dia PVC pile were cut in 1/2 to make two C shaped pieces of PVC caves for the fish. Females would lay eggs on the inside upper side of the caves / 'tiles'.
As an example see this sexy FHM video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBoO-tFrbJg

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