Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Cisco's pond (pic heavy)

Well THE Raiman came to see me this weekend. He started spraying the lime and alum on Friday. It was about 75 degrees and not much wind. Saturday, he finished it. The weather Saturday was a different story. Started out in the 30's and didn't get much warmer. Wind was blowing about 30mph. The guy worked his tail off and didn't stop till he was done. I'm still amazed at the final product. This pond has been a pain in the rear since I've owned it. Nothing I tried ever worked. I now have a new pond thanks to Rex.

Getting started. Take note of the boat trailer on the right




Chocolate milk


You can actually see the wheels on the trailer now.


It's working!




I've never seen under the dock before


My new favorite picture


I can't say enough good things about Rainman. Hard worker and a helluva nice guy. We did have a few "moments" but nothing that couldn't be fixed. He did almost submarine the boat once though. Thank you Rainman!!!! I actually want to fish the pond again.

Looks amazing! Well done.

Rex is amazing isn't he?

Looks great! Rex is super.
CMM

Rainman's hair raising side adventures are guaranteed on every job, yet remain free entertainment, and serve as an added bonus to his hard work and professionalism. Well done, and congrats Cisco on the new clarity!

Cisco, That is amazing how the water went from chocolate milk to where it is now. Looks like Rainman did a great job. Did you ever figure out what caused the suspension on the clays, that made it so muddy?

Tracy

Great stuff. I expect in the cooler weather it will stay like that for some time.

That second picture had me thinking "jaws" your going to need a bigger boat.

The Good Brian, that looks great! Rex did an outstanding job.

Tracy, I think it was mainly the wave action combined with having nothing growing around it. Never got much growing but the native weeds took over. I did get some rock around it. I can't wait to get back down there in a few days. It should be even clearer. Thanks again Rex! Went from an eyesore to something I'll get more enjoyment out of.

TGB (Cisco)
Looks amazing! Have any ideas low long the treatment will last ?

Rainman said at least until I can get some plants growing come spring. now that sunlight can penetrate the water, I should have something growing soon. He said I won't have a muddy water problem again unless something major happens. I'm going to get a good rain late this week so We'll see what happens. I do plan on doing some more planting this spring and maybe even bring in some more rock. It's looking good so why stop now? It was never going to end anyway was it?

If it wasn't for the third pontoon under that rig a little wave action and a little weight up front....

Looking great!!

That is an amazing difference.

Ain't it great when a plan comes together?

Great job Rainman and glad it came out so well Cisco.

That's amazing, Cisco. Looks good! How much lime and alum did Rainman dispense in your BOW?

Pat, the treatment is permanent, unless bottom sediments are stirred up and flushed out. A massive influx of new, colloidal clay could also overwhelm the positively charged Aluminum Ions, but since nearby ponds on the same hillside are clear, the latter is unlikely.

With light able to penetrate now, planktonic algae, macrophytes, submerged plants, and other good things will blossom and naturally filter any new sediment loads.


stickem, 4160 pounds of Aluminum Sulfate and only 1500 pounds of Hydrated lime (Type S)

With the heavy wind/wave action that would normally stir up sediments into the pond, the water was getting clear, fast. Even my prop sending huge amounts of mud into the water along the shores left the water muddy for no more than a minute or two before clear again.

Canyon, I do load it to the tipping point, and though I did manage to nearly swamp a trash pump while the front of the boat took a peek under the water, the pumps were not running. (unlike the last underwater exploration with both pumps running at full throttle...)

Rainman do you think the treatment will take out the tannins that all the ponds around here have after this spring?

I was impressed by how fast the water cleared. With the money that I had spent trying to get grass growing , etc., etc., etc. this was the way to go. I should've done it years ago but like to do things myself. I just watched the master this time and it worked well. I'm headed back to the farm this morning mainly because I just want to go marvel at it! More pics to follow!

Pat, it does let sunlight help bleach out tannins, but does nothing to remove the staining. All Alum does is allow all negatively charged Ions in solids attach to the positively charged aluminum. Another benefit is that all the phosphorus in the water will bind, becoming aluminum phosphate, and be unavailable to any algae to uptake and grow.

Cisco's water does have some tannin staining from mesquite. About the only thing that can be done to remove tannins, is mechanical filtration, which isn't really practical.

FWIW, I have successfully cleared a LOT of muddy water, and even I was slack jawed at just how well Tater Pond cleared up....especially in such heavy wind/wave action on Saturday. I'd fully expected the pond to clear, but had also told Cisco that the winds/waves would probably keep everything stirred up badly. The "floc" particles were very large and easily visible when stirred up, and fell out of the water like rocks.

And here's what happens a fish can finally see a lure. It's fun to see them chasing the lure.








Stunted but they'll fatten up now that they can see.

Cisco,

How's the pond looking after all this rain?

Chris, I asked the same question yesterday and was told he'd be there later in the week. The way his pond reacted to the Alum treatment, and the fact he has 2 ponds getting runoff from the same watershed, without suspended clay, I'd bet his pond never clouded much at all in the rains.

Sorry guys, been busy. I'll be back out there Friday afternoon. I'm curious to see what it looks like. I'll post with some pics in a few days.

Well my main pond was somewhat muddy after getting 5.5 inches of rain in 2 days. Not anywhere near as bad as it was but muddier than it was after Rainman left. I pulled a bottle of water from out on the end of the dock and it was clear when I collected it and just as clear 1 1/2 days later. No sediment in the bottom of the bottle. I'm thinking it'll clear right back up this week. That was a lot of rain in just a few days so time will tell.

Update:
The pond is as clear now as it was when Rainman left. I'm guessing about 24" visibility but didn't have sechi disk at the time. I'll make one a get a more precise reading on the clarity but I can say that it is a great sight these days when going thru the gate and seeing a "new" pond.

Good Brian,

Are you going to change any stocking numbers this year because of your water clarity? Any other changes in the future?

Cisco, though I'm glad to hear your clarity has stayed, I'm also a little bummed I don't have to come back and spray more...even if under my guarantee...lol I loved your place!

Brian-Rex said I probably need another 1500 or so BG, I've talked to Chad at Bob's place and he'll have them as soon as I want them.

Rainman- I think you'll need to come back and check the water, somethings wrong but I can't put my finger on it!!

Good Brian,

Just a hint, go heavy on the forage, it can't hurt....

Having Rex back is also a good call, but try to coordinate the visit, he missed the whole east side of Texas last time.

We really need more pictures....

I'll get some more pics this weekend. I haven't had much time to fish lately but that's going to change!

The subject says "pic heavy" but the pic per post capita has fallen below 1.

Here you go. This is almost 6 months after Rainman did his thing












It did get a little muddy after a heavy rain but cleared back up. I need some recommendations on what kind of plant/rush/weed to put in this spring. I'll also be adding about 1000 6" BG per Rex's recommendation in a few months.

That water looks just like it should...awesome!!! With all the wind/wave action you get, there is zero suspended clay being seen!

I think there is some minor amounts of fish poo and possibly other fine organics being stirred up from all the wind/wave action, but knowing how deep the rip/rap goes, your water is really clear! The water clarity is a little deceptive because you are getting bottom browns being refracted into the water column along with glare and surrounding color refraction. I'd bet a secchi would be at 6 feet+ clarity.

Good Brian,

I like American Pondweed. I am growing it so I can move it around where I want it. It is easy to control, it grows well and the fish use it.

I am sure there are others, but it is my favorite for use in our big pond.

+1

In the not too distant past in an issue of PBM, Bob L. said he really likes American Pond Weed and it provides great cover for the little guys.

I THINK I have a plant or two that just appeared last year. I hope it takes hold as I really need vegetation and finding desirable submerged plants that work with large water level fluctuations is not easy.

Primrose can be very good cover also, but can also get out of control if not managed well

I shall call Rainman Clearman from here on out!

Good call Cecil! I think it should be Clearman. The American pondweed I planted 2 years ago was the only plant that made it past the 1st year. It has since gone away but now with the sun being able to penetrate more, I'll get some more in this spring along with some rushes of some sort. And I'll make a sechi this weekend and get a better reading but I'm thinking 6' might be optimistic be we shall see.

Do you have a source to buy American Pondweed?

Good Brian, you may be right on my optimism, yet whatever the clarity, no turbidity is from any suspended clay now.

Bill-yes sir I do. I have to drive about 30 miles to get it and then another 130 or so to my place but I can get it.

Clearman-maybe you'd like to come check it yourself? Your always welcome anytime. And I do agree, the old mudhole is as clear as it has ever been.

Do you know if the place you buy the pondweed ships or has a website?

He just might Bill. His name is Joe Snow, really nice guy.

http://www.joesnowaquaticplants.com/

Thank You Sir! I sent him an e-mail. Sure hope he ships. He has a pretty impressive plant list.

Good Brian, that's very cool. What's interesting is that the Bad Brian and I treated a cow tank of mine 2-3 years ago, and it still clears after getting muddy via wind or bovine shoreline trampling.


I completely agree with Rex. WP is an invasive, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a nuisance. My experience has been that fish fry, and crayfish really love it. The shoreline canopy it creates also holds smaller LMB close to the shore. It's very easy to control also. I always keep a patch in my brood pond, and just rake it back when it gets too rangy. I would never recommend it, but I sure like mine.

Not just small LMB Al. One of the largest LMB I ever encountered was under a patch of WP in 4 ft of water looking for craws. I just happened to place a plastic craw in front of her nose. WP is easily (with some effort) raked out of a pond. Goats love to eat it also.

Water primrose spreads by fragmentation, so rake carefully!

Great news Brian - I'm really glad your water has responded to Rex's treatment. Sigh of relief, glad you can finally start enjoying the full potential of your pond!

If you need APW I have it in abundance up here. If you're ever up this way you are welcome to take some seeds with you, or maybe I could mail some down your way in August which I think is when they historically start seed development.

In my experience, macrophytes will establish themselves naturally and it's rather a crap shoot on what you'll see. With your improved clarity I'll wager you see some action this season. Not a bad idea, however, to nudge the process along in the direction you want by planting certain cultivars - as if beneficial vegetation gets established first it can out compete less desirable ones. I got lucky with my APW and Arrowhead and some rushes and sedges I really like, unlucky with coontail and chara. I now treat the latter to help encourage the others to keep the upper hand, but everything has it's season and it's important to remain vigilant. Let me know if I can help, and congrats again on the great looking water.

Small update. I had a pretty good rain about a month or so back and the water is muddy again. I took a clear bottle out week before last and put it in my gunroom and it settled in a week so I'm hoping the water will gradually clear up.

Before


After 1 week


I am getting some growth now. What is it?

Looks like Chara to me.

Me too. Zap it.

Me three.

Does chara have the little small white flowers? I've got a book somewhere AL gave me but I haven't been able to find it. Maybe american pondweed?

Me four,

Good Brian, here is a pic of APW

Thanks guys! I'm just happy something is growing!

The Good Brian, welcome to the world of clear water. Don't be surprised if more plants pop up, so walk the banks, and get feel for what's going on.

It's cleared nicely in the jar during that week. Looks like Rex did a great job.

Be careful what you ask for..... My very first plants turned out to be hydrophilla ..... A federal noxious weed ! Ugh

Cisco, hope and pray that it doesn't look like a cross between chara and FA with white flowers. If it does, you're in deep doo-doo.

Google Starry Stonewort and hope that it isn't what is in the pictures below.



Here's a close up of the flower:


If it IS Starry Stonewort, you have to jump on it now and jump on it hard. It's really an algae and it is expensive to treat, as it doesn't respond to standard algaecides. It can create a solid mat of plants from surface to the bottom in 4+' of water, and it is a 2-3 year process to have any hope of killing it all for good.

Thanks esshup, I'll get some better pictures of it tomorrow when I get there. Just about the time I get that @#$% pond to where I'm liking it, another creature appears. I can't say I wasn't warned though.

Tilapia Tilapia Tilapia!!!!

If you can fence off the area around the plants, drop in 10# of tilapia, they'll consume/destroy it fast!

Rainman
Will tilapia eat hygrophila polysperma?

Pat, I'd say yes, but a huge, "It Depends". Tilapia prefer FA first, then aerobic bacteria on muck/detritus, and then other foods not being competed for in each pond setting.

How many pounds stocked it would take to get the Ludwigia eaten is an unknown.

I'm sure you already know if you have the stuff...it is a federal noxious weed and spreads via fragmentation....

How well I know

Pond started to get a little "stirred up" again so I had Rainman back out for a booster application. Helped some but not like the first time.Has to be the wind/wave action. Speaking of wind, it's been about a month since he was here but I've had a little wind lately that didn't help much




Here it is before the breeze came thru.

Had the tops of trees taken off but dead ones right next to them left standing. You think Rex has stories, you should hear some of mine! My late wife always told me to write a book.
Sorry, this really has nothing to do with my muddy pond.

Awe man, that sucks. Hopefully it won't take too long to get the porch roof fixed. It WAS only the porch roof, wasn't it?

Dang Brian....sure glad I was gone...it woulda been my fault somehow!

I hope the damage can be fairly easily repaired...I love sitting there!

When the porch was blown up over the roof, it did pull up a section of the roof but at least it was over the "barn" portion and over the house part. Also put a hole in the side of the building about the size of a 2 x 6. When the porch beam went thru the bedroom window, it blew glass 20'. My bed was covered in it. Part of it fell directly on a spigot and almost pulled the pex tube apart on the inside wall. It was leaking when I got there Friday afternoon but I do have a floor drain out there. Some of the wood floor in the kitchen got wet from rain blowing thru the french doors I think. I couldn't any other way for it to be there. This my friends is the actual life of Brian! Just another opportunity to overcome adversity!At least that's what I've heard.
Rainman, Cant blame you, you were long gone for this one.

Hey Brian, on the bright side, your grass really came in well in that second photo! Sorry to hear about your wind storms.