Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Can't buy one lmb at my place

I thought I might tell you of my pond stocking of a possible trophy lmb pond. So, I built this 3.5 acre pond back in Nov of 14 and after some researching I decided to do a stocking of 30 to 1 of forage cnbg and res. I also did 10,000 tfs and about 1500 1/3rd " crawfish. And I added 5 lbs of Tilapia in the 4 to 6" size or about 25 fish, and now I see at least a thousand of 4 to 6"er's, along with 120 lbs of FHM's. And then the spawning took place, lots and lots of forage fish to feed the lmb. Did I mention the Bull frogs that have taken up residency here? Forage frogs, yep !! I was looking for fast growth lmb reaching for those double digit fish. Will this past week I started to fish for an lmb to sample and record. Will, I am a pretty good lmb fisherman, and have won some pretty big fishing tournaments and won a boat at one tournament. So, I can fish, but not at my place, can't buy an lmb at my place I see where Bill Cody talk's of using night crawlers for lmb fishing, but what true BASS Fisher uses night crawlers for bait? That is cheating I might have to give a try Thanks Bill for your post on the other thread here.

Tracy

Tracy

TRACY
Sounds like they to well fed to bite something not real. I feel your pain. When there is no one looking slip some live bait on and see what happens.. Lol

4 inch BG free lined. That always works; well, not always.

Tracy, welcome to the wonderful world of a 30 to 1 stocking rate. The thing you have to separate is sport fishing from assessment. Like you, I always use artificials when I'm sport fishing my big pond, but readily admit that live bait can be much better(read quicker) for assessment, and looked at as a management tool, and not recreation.

The really, really good thing is that if they're hard to catch, that means those babies are eating, and probably eating really well.

I'm really anxious to see where your pond is in a year or two. Your upside should be tremendous.

It's impossible to catch yellow perch or bluegill in my pond unless it's close to feeding time. Ask Scott, Fatih, or Keith!

My really large trophy bluegill have to be seined to get a consistent number to sell.

Yup I'm right there with you guys. My large BG get smart pretty quick! If I don't catch em in a frenzy I may not catch them at all.

I also have same problem with my LMB, but I can almost always get a bite or 2 with a 3 inch BG on the hook and a bobber about 2 feet up!

You may have to do this just to see what you got going!! I also have good success with a 4 inch plastic floating worm just kinda twitch it along!! I have caught some nice ones that way!!

RC

Show pics when you catch them I want to see these LMB!!!

Even the HBG, with their supposed "always on" feeding response clam up tight after a few C&R episodes. No one said having a fed pond meant easy catching, but it's funny how the general angling public still equates it to shooting fish in a barrel.

Sparkie do like Shorty suggested, wedge a pellet of fish food in the bend of a hook and hold on- that's catching fish in a barrel

Believe it or not I have done that also and it does catch more fish but if a bobber is present larger BG will not touch it! I have to chunk it without a bobber to catch any bigger ones! I even tried using the small ice fishing bobbers and still no go sometimes. They are not stupid that's for sure!!

RC

Spark you got that right! Here I thought when I bought my place I was gonna catch fish whenever I felt like it! Ha,ha!! NOT!! At first I did sure cause they were starving! But after I got feed going and BG spawning for the bass things got harder and harder! Heck I can catch fish on public waters easier then in my own pond!!

RC

To be honest I'm leery of using pellets, artificial or real, to catch my fish. I want them to readily consume the feed, not begin to associate it with getting yanked out of the water. I have no evidence that this happens, and I understand the need to evaluate the population, but I have seen with my own eyes how acclimated fish can become to a previously "hot" lure or bait, and start avoiding it like the plague. I'm sure there will always be eager biters, caught over and over again, but I'm not willing to chance it.

I'm in the "fish absolutely learn", camp.....

Well this is not sounding good at all.Maybe we shouldn't feed our fish. Or maybe fatten them up for about 2 years and then cut the food off making them easier to catch.What is the big deal of trophy fish if they won't bite?

No, say it ain't so! You mean that they can tell the difference between an AM500 and an AM600 pellet?


I caught a bunch of BG in a local lake a number of years ago on a white twister tail. The BG in that lake just hammered it every time I used it. I put a number of those fish in my pond after I had a winterkill right after I purchased this place. Guess what? Yep. I couldn't catch them in this pond on that same lure.

Tongue in cheek I know.

I can't catch LMB in my pond that have been eating AM600 after catching them a few times on imitation pellets. But, after seeing them chase after YP that were feeding on pellets, I caught many on a YP imitation jerk bait.

I've also noticed that the LMB in my pond are easier to catch after a 6 month period of no fishing for them under the ice, than they are to catch in the fall after seeing fishing pressure all spring/summer.

They do learn..... I guess if you keep all the ones you catch it wouldn't be a problem unless one of the fishes buds see him get yanked out of the water...

That is the philosophical question we have debated here before. Look at it this way; learning how to fool these pellet conditioned fish is part of the challenge. Sure, you may need to explore different techniques, but that's part of the fun. If it were easy to walk out to your pond and have a 15lb LMB or 2lb BG on the end of your line with every cast, then those folks would be right...it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I believe feeding our fish has helped to make me a better angler. And not just from throwing everything in the tackle bag at them, but also from watching, studying, and learning about them on this forum as well as the magazine. Pond and fish management is a package deal for me, not just a case of following a pre-set formula and reeling in giant fish. It simply doesn't work that way.

You of all people know they can.. I have some very particular fish. Standard practice is to feed by hand, once during the evening. I'm normally alone, and since I've been working I'm still wearing my grungy clothes. A couple years after starting the program I began to notice a pattern regarding feeding behavior. Even after ruling out as many environmental factors as I could identify, there was still an issue in play somewhere.

I finally figured out that the fish showed a markedly reduced feeding response when I had someone with me while feeding. I normally feed alone, and I'm quiet. When I had company there was not only an added body, there was also conversation. They don't like that.

The second issue is even more bizarre. I swear they prefer me in darker clothes such as what I wear to work. If I'm wearing light colored shirts, they shy away from the floating feed somewhat. They still eat, but I can see a difference. I put that one down to having good water clarity for much of the season. It sounds crazy, but I don't think I'm imagining it.

Funny, but true

However, after visiting and fishing Fireishot's pond, he turned me on to using a Fluke which has now been the go-to bait fishing the LMB in my pond. And it's currently out-catching every other bait I've used. And I say currently because I know they'll get smart to it, as they have others.

This is what makes it such a fun challenge!

So Tracy, don't give up!

On Saturday I pulled out a 16" 2.75lb (122%), 16.5" 3.25lb (128%) and a pond-record 20.5" 4.25lb (.84%) LMB, all using a Fluke like the one pictured, but since I lost that one on the first catch and it was my last of that color, I put on a salt & pepper colored Fluke and pulled in the last two.




Special thanks to Al (Fireishot) on recommending the Fluke!!!

And on Esshup's pond, I was able to catch 3 LMB, all over 4 lbs on a Chatterbait, but have yet to catch one in my pond with one. Oh, and Scott, that Chatterbait may still be hanging on a tree branch on the island .

I'm sure like most, I have an arsenal of baits and tackle that I go through, for the sake of learning to use them, gaining confidence in them, and that one of them may just be the one they're going to hit on,,,,,, that day .

But as with everyone's experiences, each pond can be so different with what works. And like I've read on this forum, if you want to know how big the fish are in your pond, invite someone out who's not fished it!

Hang in there, Tracy and dig out that arsenal of baits!

Yeah the fluke worked good on my pond too at first! Now I hardly ever get a bite on it! Except smaller bass that don't know no better....

lol

RC

It's a shame that the fish are outsmarting us. Guess gonna have to resort to dynomite... Or something. Guess that's y there is so many new baits on the market

Well it's like one said above you got to start keeping some of them so the new ones can grow up and they don't know any better.

C.

Guess I need to take that walk of shame. I have only fished with live bait (if chicken liver counts too) in my pond and it works great!

I don't use a sling and a stone while squirrel hunting, but I also don't consider my use of a firearm to be cheating. I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

I agree with Pat W. and Al (fireishot) with regards to fishing live bait. If I really really want to catch and eat fish, I fish with live bait. If I want to sport fish, I gravitate towards artificial...but I like hooking up either way. Ain't no shame in my game. I'll catch'em if I can find what they want...sometimes, that's the hard part. I've caught every thing in my pond except the CB LMB, but I don't worry about it. I still have too many FHM, Gambusia's, GSF YOY, and BG YOY. Time will tell. I'd just like to see the growth rate since I introduced them on May 31st.
Charlie

FWIW, I talked to my neighbor today. He said he lost a CC in my pond that was so big he could have fit his fist in it's mouth. The hook pulled out just as he got it to shore.

The bait?

A red and white #4 mepps spinner.............

Lovinlivin, I'll have to check the tree on the island.

Tony, yep, you are correct. I was really surprised that the fish wouldn't eat AM600 with AM500 floating in the pond.

For some reason, pumpkinseed colored worms work 5 times better than any other soft plastic and 20 times better than any hard plastic I use

This is what I'm gonna start throwing this fall when the water hits about 60-65 degrees. I think this little jewel will catch LMB right around tilapia die off time.

The Game Changer

That fluke looks a lot like the go to lure I used for LMB when stationed in NC...Crawdad colored culprit worm. Always worked for me...

Sean

Al, that is amazingly realistic.

Tony, isn't it though? I'm ordering solid white ones, and use Marks-a-lot for the coloring. I can't wait.

Al, where are you ordering them from? I purchased a one or two when I was in Tailwaters, but I could use a few more white ones to color.

All this fishing talk, and I went ahead and ordered mine at The Fly Fishers, Inc.

https://www.theflyfishers.com/P/2056/Gamechanger

There out there a little cheaper if you look, but I've shopped with this place. The EP flies they carry are great too.

Guys, I am happy u guys were here to reply with some suggestions, reducing my frustration (hoping)
Charlie, as Bro's here, who stocked Overton's CBLMB around the same time, I am like u said. I just want to look at a couple of them, I do not want to start teaching them how not to bite artificial

Lovnliven, watermelon flukes rule and I have a BPS close by for renewal of my arsenal. $$$ lol
Djustauder, pumpkin seed was the first color of grub I threw.
Al, thanks for posting the swim bait that will be fished on my 4 wt fly rod. That may also work on the soon to be stocked, George G's. HSB ( Sorry but I did not want to misspell George's last name). I am a terrible speller. His name will live on @ my pond, his fish will be there And tell me of the EP fly Oh carp !! never mind al, I found the site and now I am looking at a larger arsenal of baits, ha just what I needed

Tracy

Time for a new fly rod. The 4 wt is too light for that fly. I'd be looking at a TFO Mini-Mag 8-10 kit.

Thanks essup, I have 3 other fly rods a 5 wt., an 8 wt and a 9 wt, and I am not all that good with any of them lol, I am not familiar with the rod u suggest, I will give it a look see.

Thanks

Tracy

Tracy, you might be a pond junkie if.......

Dave, it's nice to have a place to come to when we are looking for a better drug, doesn't get any better than visiting with others pond junkies like you and essup and ewest and Bill C to mention just a few. And snrub and pat and TJ and Bill D and Al and and...

Tracy

Whose a junkie? We just interested. Lol.... Well .... You right

At pond right now and saw the strangest thing, threw some pellets in the shallows trying to teach the cc to eat the food off the surface and noticed some LMB eating the pellets alongside the CNBG. Is that normal for LMB to train themselves?

The bass is 8" long

Yeah, it happens but they seldom stay with it.

Charlie I tried a 4" watermelon French fry= Nata a thing lol but the cnbg had a ball pecking at it.

Tracy

Todd came up yesterday and dropped another 50# of 1"-2" tilapia in our brood pond. Tracy, I threw a small rapala out this morning, (the CBLMB's normal artificial of choice), and my CBLMB just laughed. My little cannibal's are getting fat.

will your tilapia over winter in your brood pond? You have the LMB in your brood pond?

Bobby, the mozambique tilapia will not survive the winter up here in North TX. We usually get about 8 months out of them, and they are the best bang for the buck forage wise, as I've ever seen. I ultimately stocked 30 pounds per acre, so 300 pounds, and I can't wait for the water to start hitting the mid 60's. The LMB feeding is just epic.

I put 25 of Overton's 5"-7" yoy LMB in my brood pond on July the 9th. This pond had been seined 4 times with a 1/2" net, and all that was basically left were fry. I also added 20 pounds of rosey reds at that time. These fish have been eating nonstop, and were impossible to catch. This week, I started catching them, so 50# of 1"-3" tilapia was stocked. To me, when a LMB starts hitting artificials in a hyper-foraged small pond, the fish are telling me something.

This morning, I couldn't catch anything, and that's what I wanted.

These fish were going to be transferred to the big pond when they changed from forage to predators and hit 12", but that plan has changed. I'll wait to say where they're at size wise right now, but I was very surprised.

Afterthought. Tony, if you read this, I did seine up what I believe to be first generation GSF X OTSCNBG. I saved them, and threw them back in the brood pond. Let's see how they turn out.

Al, I did get a couple of my Overton's CBLMB to follow a small black beatle spin up to the shoreline, and so a got a little look @ a couple of them. It has been the only artificial that got any attention as far as I could tell. And the Tilapia OMG, forage is an understatement. I added 25 4 to 6" Tp back around April 1 and today there are a least 600 to 800 up to 12" and when I ran a minnow trap a couple weeks ago it was full of 1/2" tilapia in just 30 min. They were added when I had no predators in the pond. They hog the feeders. But now that my lmb are getting some 12" in size, I am looking forward to watch the lmb get fatter when the water cools, I am thinking late Nov. Al, does late Nov sound about the right time when the water cools down here in our area of Texas?

Tracy

Did you get any photos of those hybrids, Al? Looking forward to hearing about the seining results also!

Tracy, I think of the safe tilapia date's as April 1st to Oct 31st, and then look at any November dates as a bonus. I do think ours were still around in mid to late November last year, but I just can't remember. I just can't imagine how many thousands of tilapia you have with the timing of your stocking.

Tony, as per usual no camera, or empty dry hand. I do need to update the brood pond thread, because that little pond turned out tons of fish this year. I pushed it as hard as I felt comfortable doing, including using weekly water changes to keep things fresher.

This pond again had a mix of GSF and the CNBG, but the spring seine was the first time I had seen any GSF markings and color in any of this generation of CNBG. Some were too small for me to sex accurately. I think the next seining, which should be right around the middle of November should really tell the tell.

Tony, since you're a hybrid guy, let me ask you this... Are those hybrids going to bully my other fish and leave them hiding in a dark weedy corner of the brood pond? Is this gonna be like Sharknado with rabid leaping hybrids biting us when we get close to the shore? Should I arm myself?

I'll just say this: HBG are extremely aggressive, and very hardy. On cool mornings when the dew is heavy, HBG have been observed leaping from the water into those grassy areas bordering their ponds in order to move about and forage on grasshoppers that are still to cold and wet to move quickly. It's a frightening thing to witness.

Given the fact that these are OTSCNBG, and we're dealing with Texas grasshoppers which are undoubtedly of a larger size, I fear the worst.

Walk the shoreline with care, my friend.

Oh that's just great. First I hijack Tracy's thread, and now what I feared the worst may actually happen. I still have 5-6 Conibear 330's laying around. Maybe I'll bait each of them with a 4 pound chuck roast and see what happens.

Al airborne hybrids aren't scared of steel traps. All the traps will do is slow you down as you try to escape the attack.

You can't escape hybrageddon.

Great, just great. Now I have that to worry about.

A friend of mine gave me one of these wobble heads to try.....my bass hit these things so hard I am going to buy somemore. Got it hung up yesterday.......no way I was loosing this thing. I went swimming.

Tbar, I have several of those swimming spoons. You're right, they're great!

Al, where can you buy those swimming spoons? They would work great in tidal water. Looks like a eel coming through the water.

Let me look. I thought the one's I have are Lindy's, but I'll check.

Looks almost like a pipe clamp strap cut in half with a hook soldered to it.

I have several large ones that are used on striped bass but they are very large and a booger to throw. They work on large bass well but in my shape, I can not use them now. The smaller ones will work great where there are eels. Bass hate eels worse then anything in this area. Bait stores sell live eels here and they work great on bass and all cats.

I just ordered somemore.

http://wobbleheadlures.com

Tbar thanks for the link. The ones I found here were more like spoons. Either way, the wobble heads are really nice in clearer water when you want some movement, but not a lot of noise.

I bet that wobblehead/boot tail combo really has some great action.

Thanks,Tbar and Al. The baby eels come into tidal water in the spring and that will be a crackerjack bait then.

This is the first CB LMB that I've caught since stocking back on May 29th at 2 1/4" long. It was caught on a 4 1/2" baby bass colored fluke with metal flake. This CB LMB was 10 3/4" long in just shy of 4 months. The LMB is pale, but had a distinct turquoise blue spot on top of it's head between her eyes. I thought this was an incredible growth rate in less than four months.



I've noticed an incredible decrease in the amount of FHM, Gambusia, and Golden Shiners in my BOW as of late. I feel at that rate, they may be gone by winter time.

Good job Charlie, nice when the plan works

I had a blast this morning......caught and brought in 7 bass and had 3 throw the hook. Unfortunately I lost the only wooble head I had. Can't wait for my internet order to come in.

TBAR, good looking fish. I guess I'll have to buy some wobble heads. Of course, in my 9 tackle boxes, they might hard to find.

Tracy, here's one of my 12" yoy that were stocked on July 9th. She was sample seined and put back because I still haven't been able to catch one out of the grow out pond. I'm thinking an early December date is when they'll ultimately make it to the public pool.

Al, that is a Good Looking 12" lmb. I remember when you and I first met @ the PBC and in our discussion of doing heavy (large stocking) rates of forage fish to lmb. We talked of how it might be harder to catch a lmb when all they had to do was turn their head to eat. I am guessing that is what you may be experiencing in your forage pond. I am sure that is my experience. Keep them growing Al

Tracy