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dyrne Offline OP
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I just finished construction of my pond and dam and have at least 30-40 truck loads of topsoil leftover. The pond location is pretty much solid clay as far down as we dig... We are spreading the soil back on the banks and dam of course but is it helpful enough to justify using to soil to have a layer in the pond itself on top of the compressed clay?

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I wouldn't. It will just add to nutrients in the water which we all fight against. Seems like that happens enough on it's own. How long till you think the pond will be filled? If it is going to take a long time, you might want to get some grass growing in the upper regions of the waterline to prevent erosion. But even there, I would be skeptical about putting topsoil down.

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I'm really not sure how long it will take. No water source feeding into it. I don't have a great deal of watershed around it maybe 6 acres for the 1.5 acre pond but we had to place the dam there to get access to the house site so made sense for a pond to be there. I don't think much water is escaping once it gets in the pond except through evaporation but I have no idea how long it will take to fill.

I'll look into seeding the sides. That might be a good idea.

The dam has a lot better slope now and much wider driving area but this is the most recent pic of the pond I have:


Last edited by dyrne; 08/19/15 01:22 PM.
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Dyrne, by seeding the "sides" what do you mean? As for the extra topsoil, I"d pile it up somewhere that is out of the way but easily accessible and seed it. Somewhere down the line ya will need some good dirt for something. Don't know how many trips I've made to the city's dirt reserve and moving it in 5 gal buckets is a pain.


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dyrne Offline OP
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After giving this some thought since it doesn't make sense to put it back in the pond I think I might use a lot of the extra soil for some mounds along pond bank well away from the dam. The family is wanting some weeping willow and maybe cypress trees. Hopefully this is fairly safe -I'm sure the cypress will require some maintenance to keep it from spreading.

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If you put weeping willow anywhere near the pond, they assume that you meant for them to do their best to drain the pond for you. They will suck water for all they are worth while you wonder where the water is going smile

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Some clays will tend to stay in suspension and cause muddy looking water.

My NRCS guy said that our type of clay likely would and If I wanted a clear water pond to line the pond with a couple inches of topsoil. Silt particles are much larger (eidt: I originally said smaller - wrong - clay particles are much smaller than silt, that is why the clay stays suspended) than clay, and will precipitate out of the water column much better. We have an old pond that tended to stay muddy looking so I took his advice.

Now the good and the bad of lining a clay pond with topsoil. The good is we have never had muddy looking water. The top soil did the job of not having clay particles suspended in the water. The bad is that our topsoil had a lot of nutrients in it. That can be a good thing if your watershed does not give off much nutrient load. It can keep you from having to fertilize to get a plantonic algae bloom. In my case the topsoil was pretty high in nutrients and we do have some nutrient load from runoff from agricultural land. So we have had some problems with FA because of the abundant nutrients.

So lining a clay pond with topsoil can have some good results in keeping the water more clear (if the type of clay you have tends to stay suspended in water - not all do). It can also have some disadvantages. Plus you are already filling some of your water capacity with dirt. So the answer is "it depends".

If your BOW will take a long time to fill, another thing topsoil lining the pond would do is let you establish some grass in the bowl of the pond. This has some specific advantages like erosion control during large rain events and also provides some good places for new fish fry to hide and eat till some water plants get established. I did this on part of the pond and I think it helped the pond life cycle get established during fill.

So I'm giving you some pro's and con's of lining the pond with top soil. It does not take much to cover the clay. The less the better actually but still covering the clay.

The other thing I would consider doing with if the top soil pile would be in the way or an eyesore is to just slope the back side of the dam even more with it. Gentle slopes are so much easier to keep mowed and maintained, so if the dirt is excess and you think you will never need it elseswhere, that is a good place to waste it.

Last edited by snrub; 08/20/15 02:33 PM.

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dyrne Offline OP
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This was super useful thanks snrub.

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Originally Posted By: dyrne
After giving this some thought since it doesn't make sense to put it back in the pond I think I might use a lot of the extra soil for some mounds along pond bank well away from the dam. The family is wanting some weeping willow and maybe cypress trees. Hopefully this is fairly safe -I'm sure the cypress will require some maintenance to keep it from spreading.



You'll find the Willow's can be a nightmare to control, both in and out of the water. Willow spreads by sucker roots, seeds, and, fragmentation! small limbs becoming only a half inch piece from getting chopped up by a lawn mower can grow roots and become dozens of sprouts in just a few days...

I like the looks of Bald Cypress. I also love a big willow. Just makes sure you KNOW you will devote time and resources that can maintain the look wanted.

Last edited by Rainman; 08/20/15 10:03 AM.


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Your welcome.

There was an error in what I said above that is now corrected. Clay particles are smaller than silt. Silt particles are larger. That is at least one reason why they settle out better (there could be other reasons like particle charges).

I knew what I meant but did not say what I meant.


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Originally Posted By: Bob-O
Dyrne, by seeding the "sides" what do you mean? As for the extra topsoil, I"d pile it up somewhere that is out of the way but easily accessible and seed it. Somewhere down the line ya will need some good dirt for something. Don't know how many trips I've made to the city's dirt reserve and moving it in 5 gal buckets is a pain.


Wow -- I can really identify with Bob's statement.

In the last 7-8 years, I've excavated for 1/3 acre pond, a 2 car garage, and for a 24 x 24 tractor barn. I had a dump truck on site when we did the the garage and barn. I have no idea of how many times I dumped, but it was a lot. I've used all of that dirt somewhere. We used a dozer and track hoe to pile the pond topsoil in three places, not including what we used on top of the dam and around the sides. I've gone through most of it.

I didn't even have to seed mine. It just naturally sprouted a lot of green stuff, so I have had virtually no erosion from it.

I'm now hoping some contractor is going to need to find a place to dump topsoil.

Ken


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About 10 years ago one of my small ponds dried out. There was a pretty good sized willow on the dam. As I was walking around I noticed a small willow on the other side about 40 to 50 ft away. When I started pulling it up I found that the root was actually from the big willow. It ran under the pond with the root about 7 or 8 inches under the soil.


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"Wow -- I can really identify with Bob's statement."
Man, that makes me feel like I been accepted into the Good Ol Boys club. At least, I'm hopin.


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Originally Posted By: Bob-O
"Wow -- I can really identify with Bob's statement."
Man, that makes me feel like I been accepted into the Good Ol Boys club. At least, I'm hopin.


Thread Hi-Jack!

Bob -- you've been active here about 6 months longer than me! laugh

Dave D., and I are among the youngest of the oldest. cry

Anyone over about 25, like Dave and me, is considered a "Good Ol Boy", unless ...

We don't discriminate. The ladies -- we just call them all "Young Ladies", are all part of it too. (I'm in another hobby, where we refer to the Young Ladies as YL's and us old curmudgeons as Old Men (OM's) -- age doesn't count.) grin

As I hope you've experienced over about the last 10 years, the wonderful thing about PB is that our members always try to include everyone who is friendly -- local gatherings, international fishing trips (two friendly Canadians came across the border into the US, only so they could fish in Canadian waters from the US, with more friendly crazies), PB conferences, etc. Just think about all the members who recently hosted our Turkish PB friend Fatih.

Hijack Over!

Back to piling up dirt!


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Hey, it's all dirt talk. PUNK


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dyrne Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Rainman


You'll find the Willow's can be a nightmare to control, both in and out of the water. Willow spreads by sucker roots, seeds, and, fragmentation! small limbs becoming only a half inch piece from getting chopped up by a lawn mower can grow roots and become dozens of sprouts in just a few days...

I like the looks of Bald Cypress. I also love a big willow. Just makes sure you KNOW you will devote time and resources that can maintain the look wanted.


My understanding Rainman from some other threads on this site was that weeping willows are not invasive the way common willows are. Are you saying the tree might still try to take over around the pond?

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I think just about all willows are invasive. They all can grow ten feet in one year. I personally hate the white pollen and their appetite for water. Great shade tree but I would not want all their leaves and pollen in my pond.

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Lusk once told me that weeping willows are not invasive.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Weeping willows will grow from fragmentation and sucker roots also.




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