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Seville #414329 06/06/15 05:50 PM
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Update.... I thought the Dwarf Sagittaria I planted several weeks ago had all died. The leaves had all died off a couple weeks after planting. I am happy to report new growth is now coming from the buried roots. smile


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Seville #415599 06/15/15 09:29 PM
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5 inches of rain. All the plants I planted are 2 feet underwater. Guess we will see if they survive.

Last edited by Bill D.; 06/15/15 09:29 PM.

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We may have the same thing coming here during the next couple of days.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I have been told that Kesters is a good place to get aquatics.
My question (remember I'm not a pond owner yet, still working on getting there, so this is more for my planning) Have any of you planted strictly for or with the intention of attracting waterfowl? If so, what did you plant/recommend? I am hoping to have a series of ponds, with the last being a waterfowl impoundment, it will not be very deep and level will be controllable for annual plantings. I very much look forward to input on this. I met someone recently that has trained his dog to run off any waterfowl that lands on his pond (2.5 acre), was wondering if this is common or just him?

My thoughts are to plant widgeon grass, duck potato and celery. All input is appreciated.

Thanks
Doug

Seville #416027 06/19/15 01:27 PM
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One or two back issues of Pond Boss magazine have dealt with this topic.
Jul-Aug 2014. NATIVE PLANTS FOR WATERFOWL. VanSchaik reviews the food value of 24 types of plants as food value for waterfowl.

Nov-Dec 2012. PONDS, ECOSYSTEMS AND WILDLIFE. VanSchaik covers how to promote wildlife above the waterline in habitats of upland, riparian and wetlands. Discusses food plots their size and planted species chum feed, connecting travel routes, and best vegetation.

Jul-Aug 2007. PLAN FOR FALL WATERFOWL NOW. VanSchaik explores fish ponds that can attract waterfowl. Various waterfowl defined, intense management discussed, included is staggered planting dates, native vs cultivated plants, nutritional value of native plants and importance ratings of 25 native plant groups.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/19/15 01:27 PM.

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Bill,

Thank you very much, time to order some back issues! smile
I appreciate you identifying these for me.

Doug

Bill D. #420552 08/09/15 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
5 inches of rain. All the plants I planted are 2 feet underwater. Guess we will see if they survive.


Quick update

The lily and duck potato plants seem to have survived and thrived with the approximately 3 feet fluctution in pond level of my water table pond. No sign of the other species but I have not given up hope...yet. Lesson learned there I think is don't plant marginals at the waterline when at low pool in a water table pond.

A couple of pics of the survivors.

Attached Images
First Lily.jpg Duck Potato.jpg

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Seville #420563 08/09/15 07:32 PM
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Don't give up. Weather just is. Sometimes you have to keep trying each year. I know from experience.

Last edited by RAH; 08/09/15 07:33 PM.
Seville #420581 08/10/15 05:33 AM
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Keep an eye on the lily. They can quickly become lillies.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Keep an eye on the lily. They can quickly become lillies.


Yeah I have a small bay area I would love to have some lily pads in but scared to death I would lose my entire bay to them!


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Seville #420594 08/10/15 10:56 AM
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RC - Buy the lily varieties that are labeled dwarf, miniature, or small spread. Examples: Indiana, Burgandy Princess, Liou, Perry's Baby Red. Very slow to spread out even in shallow water.
http://texaswaterlilies.com/Hardywaterliliesorderpage.html
With these you will probably want them to spread faster. Then buy medium or larger varieties.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/10/15 11:00 AM.

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Seville #420605 08/10/15 12:55 PM
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wow ok cool thanks Bill I was afraid to get any cause I have a lot of shallow area around my pond and don't want to be over ran!!

thanks,
RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Seville #420608 08/10/15 01:16 PM
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RC, I have some 3 yo Colorado Lilies, so I'll try to take some pics today. Very slow spreader, and they handled both 2 separate ice overs, and 90+ water temps this year without a burp. Nice looking plant also.


AL

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You can easily control hardy hybrid water lilies with glysophate based herbicides. If you choose the slow spreaders you will likely never have to implement control methods. Buying the correct size and spread of dwarf, small, medium or large is the key component to the best water lily management.

for reference the Colorado Lily is a medium-large spread lily. If it is spreading slowly for Firelshot, that is an indication of how the smaller varieties will perform. RC try some and report back for others that are interested in how the hybrid lilies grow.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/10/15 01:34 PM.

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Seville #420615 08/10/15 02:14 PM
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Here's a pic of the 3 yo plant, and it's a little less than 11' across. Second pic is of the same type plant purchased this spring. It's about 3' across, and it stays in the original pot until next year. I'm leery of hitchhikers, so if there's another plant, I can remove it before I physically plant the lilies.



The third pic is some unknown lilie that has done extremely well here in annual drought conditions. Rush, American pondweed, and these lilies are what I'm trying to cultivate these days.


AL

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Al, did you get yours from the guys in Bill's link above? Joe Snow didn't have any a year or so back but he may have now.


It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?
Ronald Reagan
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Seville #420629 08/10/15 06:19 PM
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No, I got the Colorado's at Creative Water Gardens in Garland. They're right down the street from our city house.

After thought: Bill's advice is perfect as usual. I'll add that most aquatic plant places can have some very invasive plants for sale. I've actually seen Pennywart available. I asked the girl if she knew how invasive it was, and she said yes. I then asked her if she wanted an acre of it, and she said no. So just because they have it for sale, doesn't mean it's a viable option for a pond.

Any lilies that get out of control can be a real long term headache. Slow growing smaller hybrids sure seem like the best option.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 08/10/15 06:26 PM.

AL

Seville #420640 08/10/15 09:18 PM
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FWIW I planted Sulphurea as they were less expensive than most and advertisied as:

"....plants are very tough and hardy, which makes them perfect lilies for beginners. Prolific bloomers. Will spread 4-6 feet, bloom from mid-summer to early fall and grow in zones 4-11."

I was looking to see if lilies could survive my huge water level fluctuations. So far they are living up to the advertisement


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Seville #430029 11/25/15 12:54 AM
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I bought a place this year that has a 1/4 - 1/3 ac pond that could be close to 30 yr old. It is stocked with a nice variety of fish, but is almost devoid of submerged vegetation. I planted a couople dozen gorilla grass (wild celery) plants in early Oct., but even if these live, I need much more of something. Several varieties of mud plantain look potentially usefull for the pond margin and not a threat to become invasive, but I've been unalbe to find other submerged plants that are easily managed, available, suitable for SW MO, and maybe even easily established. I wonder if there are any desirable pond plants that can be propagated from seed. I would welcome any suggestions about plants I should consider or sources I should try.

Seville #430117 11/26/15 09:46 AM
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Welcome to PondBoss. Your pond's description here and in the fly fishing thread you posted sounds like it's going to be a really fulfilling addition to your life!
My pond would be ringed with cattails and hardstem bulrush if I didn't attack portions of the shoreline each year. This is not a monumental task for me as the pond is only 1/4 acre. It gets me out on the banks of my pond, playing in the mud.
I've added a few plant species here and there with mixed results. I chose 3 species of iris as showcase plants. Already the water's edge in most places without the4 cattails/bulrush has a mat of a short rush species that I haven't identified. It stabilizes the bank and needs no mowing.
I bought some sago pondweed and some arrowleaf duck potato from Kester's Nursery 6 years ago. They have not survived the crawfish and grass carp.
Elodea moved in on its own; it's a total pain, choking the pond each summer giving me the task of mechanical removal. Actually, I don't mind dragging weeds, as I get to pull up all sorts of critters tangled in the Elodea-crawfish, sunfish and bass fry, many species of insects. Hopefully next year I'll start to see some grass shrimp.
Good luck, and keep us informed. Thanks in advanced for your posts.

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I am puzzled about why my pond has essentially no vegetation. I've pulled in only one water weed while fishing, and I've drug many lures and flies across the bottom. It was one of the several kinds of common water weeds (Potamogeton or Najas), and it was in bad shape. I put it in an aquarium to see if it would grow a new leaf or two so that I could identify it better, but it died. I wonder if someone put weed killer or grass carp in the pond. In either case, I may have wasted my time and money planting the gorilla grass.

Seville #430141 11/26/15 03:29 PM
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FWIW Our 1/4 acre pond, prolly 25 years old, had NO vegetation for the first 2 years of our ownership-2009 and 2010. In 2011 we started seeing a short grass like growth, about 3" long, in 2 to 5 feet of water. Then in 2012 and since, Elodea runs rampant.
There were many many crawfish in the pond initially, even with LMB, YP, and 2 big (30") GC. Plants I introduced fared poorly. Terrestrial weeds were absent around the property, in flower beds and in walkways.
Soon, the Aquacide catalogs began arriving, addressed to the former owner. A partial jug of long acting glyphosate was also left behind.
I don't think I'll ever know for sure, but I'm guessing the former owners used plenty of herbicides in the pond and on the ground. A small garden bed which still mysteriously doesn't grow stuff like other ground had a suffering grapevine in it. Grapes are hard to kill around here. Even with "hospitalization", the grape died.
Crawfish and the GC could be responsible for the absence of vegetation in the pond, but all of it? I don't think so.
Anyway, given time and heavy irrigation, I believe the soil is recovering; we now grow excellent tomatoes, chilies, taters, corn, cukes, and others.

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BLM doesn't allow the use of glyphosate (Roundup) on the land it manages. That's one thing I think it does right.

Seville #430153 11/26/15 08:02 PM
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Say what? Why whould you say that BLM does not allow glyphosate? It is one of the most environmentally benign herbicides available.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/b...onRateTable.pdf

Last edited by RAH; 11/26/15 09:23 PM.
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That's for a single case in one field office. The document describes the conditions of its use. It's not a blanket okay for all of BLM. When I worked in BLM's Great Divide Resource Area in WY, it wasn't allowed. It appears that it's still used only on a case by case basis after a study of the potential impact and the need.

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