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Tony, those aren't chickens...they are Federal bipedal drones monitoring your activity on the Pond Boss forum. Doesn't mean you can't grease them, but I'd advise against eating them. As a mechanic you could use them for parts, instead, I guess?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Using only the example you provide, Yes. In regards to which has caused me more grief personally, that distinction belongs to my fellow citizens, not my government.


I'll beg to differ (debasement of currency), but respect your opinion.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Sure it's funny now...but when the supply of blackberry cobbler and strawberry shortcake dries up, it's gonna' get ugly! grin

When was the last time the gubment interfered with your dessert? laugh


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Tony, those aren't chickens...they are Federal bipedal drones monitoring your activity on the Pond Boss forum. Doesn't mean you can't grease them, but I'd advise against eating them. As a mechanic you could use them for parts, instead, I guess?


OMG those aren't eggs, they're water sample collection devices. They ARE government chickens!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Sure it's funny now...but when the supply of blackberry cobbler and strawberry shortcake dries up, it's gonna' get ugly! grin

When was the last time the gubment interfered with your dessert? laugh


Last time I was in NYC and Bloomberg tried snatching my daily 8 pounds of sugar!!!



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Originally Posted By: Zep
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Using only the example you provide, Yes. In regards to which has caused me more grief personally, that distinction belongs to my fellow citizens, not my government.


I'll beg to differ (debasement of currency), but respect your opinion.


As I do yours.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Thanks to all for keeping discourse progress oriented and respectful. A good way to achieve this this progress is through the exchange of ideas, regardless to whatever degree they may differ from ours, and consider them thoroughly and objectively. I found my intellectual growth was only possible when I started treating my positions and opinions as malleable - and when I adopted a willingness to reevaluate them based on new evidence or new viewpoints introduced to me, my universe began expanding. While this leaves me as a man without a tribe somewhere in the middle, I discovered I don't need to identify with a group in order to possess an identity, either. That, coupled with the fact the Dali Lama said I'd achieve full consciousness on death bed, and I've really got two things going for me.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
While this leaves me as a man without a tribe somewhere in the middle, I discovered I don't need to identify with a group in order to possess an identity, either.


That's so deep I got the bends after reading it. Nice work, man.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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sprkplug said: "I don't have to do any of these things, legally. I choose to do so, out of courtesy and respect for others. I do my best to practice everything I have preached here in this thread.

How many here would do the same?"


I think this is where I'm getting hung up, or missing the point.

I would say that 90% plus of the people here on the forum would do basically just like you. In other words, we are a the kind of neighbors one would like to have.

Good comedic gold about the chickens!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Tony, print out TJ's offering and shred it. Use it as fertilizer on the berry vines. It ought to work like and be valued like most free advice.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Sunil, I completely agree. By my reckoning however, that remaining <10% often appears to be the most vocal, as well as the most unwilling to entertain a viewpoint other than their own. Those make for some awkward neighbor moments, and unfortunately their actions often overshadow those in the remaining >90%.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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When I first bought my property, I wanted to be a good neighbor. Within a short time a predator/prey relationship developed with neighbors cows, poaching, etc., etc., etc. The guy downstream from me on the creek tore down fences to graze my land. Since there is no law saying that I have to keep my gate closed, some of his cattle got away. Actually I removed my gate.

So, I turned into a jerk. Now some people don't like me but I sleep better at night.

And, it's not OK to let other peoples dogs run on my land during deer season. They found that out but I'm not going to say a lot about that.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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One vote up...

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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
The guy downstream from me on the creek tore down fences to graze my land. Since there is no law saying that I have to keep my gate closed, some of his cattle got away. Actually I removed my gate. And, it's not OK to let other peoples dogs run on my land during deer season. They found that out but I'm not going to say a lot about that.


Ha Ha touché Dave!


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Common ground. It appears we all can get behind the idea of four legged livestock invading our property as being unacceptable, how much of a stretch will it be to extend our thinking to our fish?

In some circumstances it might not matter much, long term. But in others, it could wreck a carefully planned and orchestrated pond management scenario.

How much different is it really? Fins, or four legs? Is wrong still wrong?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
So, I turned into a jerk. Now some people don't like me but I sleep better at night.

And, it's not OK to let other peoples dogs run on my land during deer season. They found that out but I'm not going to say a lot about that.


My brother was already probably considered a jerk by many.

Dave -- one of the reasons I really enjoy your companionship is that you could be my brother's twin brother!

He has been running a small town for more than 25 years. When he turned 70, he decided not to run again, and retired. He wasn't even running during the last election two years ago. He got elected by write-ins with about 80% of the vote in his favor. I think he gets $90 a month for this prestigious job, plus unlimited use of a laptop computer.

Anyway, he is the also the dog catcher, grader driver, sewer engineer, etc., in this small town. When he "took care" of two dogs everyone in town was complaining about, he found himself on CNN. In the interview at his front door, you can easily see the words on his lips that were bleeped out!


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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Tony, print out TJ's offering and shred it. Use it as fertilizer on the berry vines. It ought to work like and be valued like most free advice.


I don't offer spiritual enlightenment cheaply, now I know to whom to send the invoice. Thank you for stepping up, Dave. The entire forum benefits from your generosity, especially me.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I know you don't see where our property was devalued Rex, that viewpoint is at the core of much of our discussion. Or at least the crux of my argument. And you're not alone here, in thinking that way. No offense intended, it's just a difference in our ways of looking at the same issue. Unfortunately, the bank and the real estate office did not share your viewpoint....and theirs was the opinion that mattered.

Fortunately, I was familiar with nuisance laws and prevailed. Even on what was then, an unzoned parcel of land.

Curiously, I now find myself on the flip side of the same coin. I'm the one doing business (zoned to do so), in what is otherwise a residential neighborhood. And given my stance here, it should come as no surprise that I take great pains to avoid troubling my neighbors, recognizing that I am most likely to offend them with my activities, rather than the other way around. I maintain regular business hours, stopping work (noise) at 5 pm. I don't work on Sundays at all, and have limited my Sat hours to just noon. I keep my yard mowed, and my shop maintained. I landscape and plant. I don't allow customers to roar up my driveway and stir dust.

I don't have to do any of these things, legally. I choose to do so, out of courtesy and respect for others. I do my best to practice everything I have preached here in this thread.

How many here would do the same?


Oops...almost forgot. Rex, I'm not worried about the EPA. I've said that all along. In my opinion, nothing will come of this that affects my ponds in any way, shape nor form.

I'm far more concerned about the tendency of my fellow citizens to put themselves first, than I am about the EPA. Not directed at you, just a general observation.


My contention is that you simply don't have a right to expect your neighbors to maintain your property value. You want the use of your land for what you want, what about your neighbors business and their rights? Aren't we forgetting somebody?

As somebody else said, you purchased in an unzoned community, you were not offended or impacted in any unexpected way. The only person you have to blame is the man in the mirror. I live in a zoned community and have found that there is a far greater loss of freedom because people who just love to infringe, like the well kept organization of such places and move here. Our community ended up becoming something that we never used to be, a socialist crap hole.

We are turning the tide. We've found that unzoned communities are also unorganized, random, freedom is everywhere. Infringers don't like this so they and their infringing don't move there. They stay out and there stupid laws never show up. The city loving people who moved to our Township came here to get away from the ruckus of the city, to smell the country air, to see the quaint countryside, and the first thing they try to do is turn us into the city!

Back on topic. Back in college a very smart man, my political philosophy prof who sat ion the board of the mackinaw center, always taught us that good law should always be sought and to do so you should ask;

Who will the law make more free?
Who will the law make less free?

You are no less free listening to loud music and you are making somebody less free by outlawing it, bad law. Only way to get bad law passed is in zoned communities. I'd consider a move to one if I were you.


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Originally Posted By: timshufflin
You are no less free listening to loud music and you are making somebody less free by outlawing it, bad law.


IMO Ever been driving on a beautiful day with your truck window open and pulled up next to one of those cars with the incredible bass speakers thumping or a truck with a 6 inch megaphone exhaust blasting away so you had to roll your window up? Who is infringing on whose rights? It is all in the eyes of the the individual.


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Appreciate that Tim, but no need to move. Zoning came to me, right where I'm at. A little at a time, things are improving.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
[quote=John Monroe][quote=timshufflin]
I'm afraid I can't quite agree that "pristine water was all around them". Pollution was everywhere there were people, even the indigenous. That is why we can discover so many camps along waterways...the pollution left behind.


Rainman one reason I say the waters were so pristine is from reading the Louis & Clark personal journals as they explored the Missouri and Columbia rivers to the Pacific and back, of the Louisiana Purchase as ordered by President Jefferson. They drank right from the rivers without disease, and only one man died from appendicitis. I never got the impression the Indians defecated in the streams, but that is hard information to find. Indians along the Columbia River caught lots of fish and as I remember they dried the meat and pounded it into a form of powder to be traded. What was a little disturbing was the expedition like to eat dogs and traded the Indians for them. The Journals are a free download if you have a Kindle at Amazon.com.


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: timshufflin
You are no less free listening to loud music and you are making somebody less free by outlawing it, bad law.


IMO Ever been driving on a beautiful day with your truck window open and pulled up next to one of those cars with the incredible bass speakers thumping or a truck with a 6 inch megaphone exhaust blasting away so you had to roll your window up? Who is infringing on whose rights? It is all in the eyes of the the individual.


You wouldn't be on your property then. You would be "in" your property.


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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Appreciate that Tim, but no need to move. Zoning came to me, right where I'm at. A little at a time, things are improving.


And that will be the beginning of the end. Once zoning starts, things will seem better. Then you'll need a permit for a chicken coup, then you'll have to have your grass a certain length, then you'll not be able to sell your used car if there's no license plate on it, then they'll want your no trespassing sign to comply with a sign ordinance, then they'll tell you that the adirondack chair outside must be proven to be rated as outdoor furniture, then they'll tell you how many acres of land you have to have in order to have a rabbit...

Once you cross that threshold to zoning, it is very hard to stop local ordinance rules. You can always find 51% of the people who agree that they don't want what the other 49% are doing. Enjoy.


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Originally Posted By: John Monroe
Originally Posted By: Rainman
[quote=John Monroe][quote=timshufflin]
I'm afraid I can't quite agree that "pristine water was all around them". Pollution was everywhere there were people, even the indigenous. That is why we can discover so many camps along waterways...the pollution left behind.


Rainman one reason I say the waters were so pristine is from reading the Louis & Clark personal journals as they explored the Missouri and Columbia rivers to the Pacific and back, of the Louisiana Purchase as ordered by President Jefferson. They drank right from the rivers without disease, and only one man died from appendicitis. I never got the impression the Indians defecated in the streams, but that is hard information to find. Indians along the Columbia River caught lots of fish and as I remember they dried the meat and pounded it into a form of powder to be traded. What was a little disturbing was the expedition like to eat dogs and traded the Indians for them. The Journals are a free download if you have a Kindle at Amazon.com.


I read Undaunted Courage by Ambrose. GREAT book! I am quite sure that the native people at least urinated in the water ways, threw their waste in the garden and run off went into some waterways, they still had beavers then so wouldn't they still be able to have Giardiasis? They may have been more immune to Giardiasis but that would be no different then traveling to places like Dominican Republic and the native people not getting sick from the water while we do.

I would argue that our water is far better for you now then it was when our ancestors arrived. On the other hand we are far more likely to get sick if it is not.


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Even if America's waters were clean, European waters in city centers were not. I think the Founding Fathers were aware that water could get polluted.

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