Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Aerator Cabinet

I have a Gast pump that I am looking to enclose. I want it to be as sound proof as possible. I thought about the vertex cabinet, but I called them and they won,t sell just the cabinet. Anyone have any ideas or am I better to just build one?

I've seen a few doghouses turned into cabinets. Whatever you decide, remember to add ventilation. A Gast rotary vane gets HOT under operation.

Use natural air flow ventilation or a fan if the box is pretty air tight and sound proof. For natural air flow, I like some screening on the bottom and foundation vents near the roof with pump box up off the ground on cement blocks or similar to allow air into the box.

This is what I have used for some 12 years with a Gast 1/4 hp rotary vane pump with NO fan in Texas 100+ temp summers.
No pressure loss - no failure!

Currently I am using a fiberglass commercial electrical junction box with a vent fan and it get real hot in the summer inside the box and the box isn't real sound proof. I guess my thought is to have a bigger enclosure to help keep it cooler as the box I am using is just a little bigger than the pump and fan. The enclosure is out in the open so I want it to look nice.

Kenz, I know where an enclosure that looks like a large landscape rock, is. PM me for the info. The guy only had one left. Around $200 with some pricey shipping due to size, IIRC.

Kenz, I bought a NEMA 4? outdoor box and mounted it on a wooden pole. This helps keep it off the ground during times of snow, I run my pump in the shallows during the winter. I mounted my pump on rubber shoes to help any vibration, and mounted a 4" fan to blow fresh air directly on the pump motor. I did punch a secondary exhaust port on the side and mounted a dryer to not allow any water to blow in. You can buy air filters for them, I bought mine online at " Cole-Palmer". Additionally, at first I added spongy rubber flooring to help with sound damping, which is satisfactory, but in a quest for improvement, Amazon sells 6 pieces of 1" egg shell sound proof material pretty reasonable. I have spent about $250 for everything, pump included. I do not remember where I bought my diffusers (9") offhand though. It has been running solid for 2 1/2 years now. Good luck.

Kenz,

FWIW I built the attached 4 x 4 foot pump house out of scraps left over from building the house. I vented the floor and under the eves. Built it a little bigger to have room for storing my skim net, water thermometer, etc. I built it high for ease of maintenance on the compressor, keep it out of high water and prevent critters from building homes under it. It seems to do a good job of keeping the noise level low as well.

Bill D.

Looks sharp, Bill. The only issue I have with an enclosure of that kind is accessibility. Do you need to crawl in to check on things, or can you remove the stuff beforehand? Why I'm asking, is that everytime I build something like that, it becomes a home for a couple hundred paper wasps with anger management issues. I crawl in, and wham....

Yeah, I thought about that. Everything slides right out east or west door if I want to bring something out. Nothing is fastened down. Made it thru all last summer with no wasps. They seem to prefer making nests in the tree tubes so far. Guess sticking a can of wasp spray in there within easy reach of a door would not be a bad plan though!

Edit: I wonder if the vibration/noise from the compressor is what keeps them away?? I bet they could feel the vibration thru the entire structure.

BillD's pump house is a good idea. One can simplify it by down sizing it and using just a hinged slant roof instead of the A frame roof. Actually BillD would not need to have a separate cover for the compressor. The compressor could easily operate in the open sitting inside the pump house. Set the pump on an piece of foam rug padding to help dampen the sound.

I also built a similar smaller pump house of the ground out of a large plastic dog house. Lid lifts off for access. Added screening on the bottom and louvered house vents near the roofline. Screened the dog entry way to keep the insects out.

Bill, a quick question about enlosing the pump. I have a vertex system from Sue Cruz and there are warnings everywhere that the warranty is voided if the aluminum enclosure over the compressor is put in another enclosure, or modified in any way. The enclosure has its own ventilating fan so I can see it needs free access to fresh air to keep things cool. The warnings say that even repainting the box a different color will damage the compressor or void the warranty.

I've followed the rules to the letter but would love to provide a little camoflauge if possible. I've considered a pump house (maybe disguised as a decorative wishing well with little roof and compressor in the bottom, or in a large plastic fake boulder) etc. The compresser housing is in the shade of some big trees so i don't think heat is an issue but I wonder if i could safely put the compressor and its housing in something (even a plastic igloo style dog house that could be camoflaged with a rattle can) and not cause any harm.

Of course I would have to think about heat build up and air supply, bugs, etc. Right now the compressor has air intake in front and back and the leaves do tend to build up in those inlets. I have wished i did have some screening available to keep critters and leaves out of the inlets.

Vertex has to protect their warranty with customers doing dumb things, thus the numerous warnings. I assume you have one of their Brookstone rocking piston (wobble) compressors. They usually do not operate as warm as a rotary vane, although ventilation and cooling are very important to get extended life spans from compressors. I don't like the fake rocks for pump shelters even with internal fans - too air tight for my preference. Also just running the pump at night for MI conditions helps keep it cooler. Proceed at your own risk and use common sense. Make sure the new housing has ample ventilation and air circulation and you should be okay. You could even insert a outdoor thermometer to check the midday temps near the pump. FYI Gast brand Rotary vanes normally operate at 205F and thermal auto-shutdown is at 256F. There are probably similar guidelines for your compressor.

+1 to what Bill C. said. Definitely can downsize. I went oversize to provide some minimal storage at the pond and have room should I want to put any other equipment in the house in the future. I keep the cover on the pump during times of high pollen or when farmers are working the fields as it has a cleanable filter built in that traps alot of the stuff before it gets to the paper filter at the compressor inlet. Those little paper filters are expensive (The manufacturer of my system has several bells and whistles, like special air filter cartridges, that you can only get from them.). I need to modify that area and adapt a cheaper lawn mower type paper filter assembly to the inlet.

Anybody know someone that sells filter adapter kits for compressors? The compressor is essentially a 1/3 HP Gast rocking piston.

Bill - CC's motor is probably the same. The thermal ratings are based on the class of insulation on the wire they use in the windings, which most common would be Class "B" on these types of motors. Class B has a 266°F max. temp. limit. If you are tripping the thermal overload, you have a problem and need to find out what it is.

I stuck the compressor for the HBG pond up in the "attic" of the well house. No precipitation, but still out in the open.

Here is what I did.

snrub's pump house

I like SNRUB's idea but don't want overheating. I like hiding it in an attic too. I guess key is air exchange!

CC - Keep in mind that heat rises, so in an enclosure you will want to put your heavy heat producing items in the bottom with a vent, then cross over to the opposite upper side with a vent. You want the hot air to move out above while cooler air is being brought in below.

Also keep in mind that motor overheating is not always caused by excessive ambient and operating temps.

A well overlooked area by the Plug-N-Play population is over amping the motor. Yep, some people do string out a couple hundred feet of the $9.00 Home Depot extension cords and wonder why their motor smoked in short order.

Voltage drop. Pretty much most AC motors are constant HP critters. That means they will try maintain their constant HP output despite what they are being fed. If voltage drops, it want's to eat more amps to maintain HP although speed has been reduced, and now the cooling fan is much less effective, because it has to follow the Affinity Laws. Higher amps are working their way into the winding insulation and causing premature failure of a motor that should last for many, many years.

Don't buy a 100' extension cord and octapus all of your pond's electrical requirements off of that.

Snrub's style of pump does not produce a lot of heat compared to a rotary vane or rocking piston compressor. Has compressor shelter is spacious and with louvered ventilation.

Just another FWIW, but I've had several members PM me about my cabinet that's been outside since June, 2012, through some harsh winters and still holding up fine. I was going to insulate the inside (for noise) but never got around to it, but it's fairly quiet the way it is!

Like the rig, but I suck at wood.

I hear that. I despise working with wood, although I have great admiration for those who can use the medium to turn out fantastic projects....works of art, many. Far beyond anything I could ever accomplish. I can't even follow the line with a skilsaw.

Metal? Now you're speaking my language!

I have vents in both ends and openings at the ends of the ceiling insulation where heat can rise and exit via venting in each end of the lid. I built it with the idea there might be a different style pump in it some day.

I consider cabinet built by Lovnlivin okay for a rocking piston compressor but too tight with lack of adequate natural flow ventilation for a rotary vane. Note his shelter does have a fan in it which makes the shelter okay.

Here is my cabinet. 20 bucks at the pet storeand a couple pieces of wood over the top. Works for a nice place to put your drink or your worms or tackle box while fishing from the shore!

I have a Gast rotary vane 1/3 hp pump in it and it works fine! It was a little tight fit but I got it and with the vents on the side it gets plenty of air. Just make sure you do your math on dimentions before you go get one and you will be fine.

RC's shelter is creative. If it has provision for air to be drawn in through the bottom makes it better. Adding window screen over the side openings eliminates insects from getting inside.

Hey thanks Bill for the money it is what it is. Of course depending on gauges and hight of those gauges is a factor when buying a pet crate. That's why I say do yor math first. I have had to manipulate mine some to make the 25 psi gauge fit that I got from Bill.

Bill - Any insight on thermal management for these compressors?

Have a narrow control panel going in a really hot factory, and the numbers worked out that the filtered vent's on the upper sides will convection the heat off, just because heat rises, and has room to move out the vents.

""Bill - Any insight on thermal management for these compressors?"" How are we defining thermal management? With or without accessory fans? Natural or artificial air movement? Is a little compressor humming noise acceptable? Is ambient temperature important? Air temps of 90F+ with midday sun shining on the pump house without any shade changes the need or requirements for thermal management. Operation 24/7 vs only nighttime compressor operation also has to be factored into the management plan.

FWIW my 1/3 HP rocking piston compressor came with a pretty small cabinet. The manufacturer installed a 15W cooling fan. IMHO 15W is cheap insurance.

Just wondering if anything was more concrete with the rotary vane compressors.

When you have a heat producing compressor the general rule would be the more air flow and cooler the motor operates the better it is for improving motor life span. I've seen compressor shelters get hot enough to melt the coating on the plug wire plus who knows what else inside the motor; that is obviously why the motor failed. Excess heat build up is generally a problem for all electrical motors and probably electrical circuit boards, including the computer you are using to read this post.

I appreciate all the ideas. I am going to build a cabinet. Just have to make the time for it and get it done. I am a carpenter and a carpenters projects are always last. I have an idea in my head and will post pics when completed (hopefully soon, I will be pulling my small aerator and firing the Gast up soon).

FWIW My parting words of advice...IMO Bill C has it right. You can't have too much ventilation. Only thing I would add is monitor your air inlet filter and keep it nice and clean. A dirty filter will make the entire system work harder which means more heat to dissipate, higher electricity useage and lower compressor motor life.

In hindsight on my cabinet, I wish I would have reversed where the fan and vent is. With the compressor intake right in front of where the air is drawn in through the vent, I'm having to change the filter more often that I should be. I supposed it will draw some dust in regardless but probably not as much if it weren't right in front of the vent.

It seems like all the important thoughts come AFTER my projects are complete .

Yeah Bill - In NEMA rated enclosures it's fairly easy to calculate your thermal dissipation requirements, and be it either by convection thru upper vents or the addition of fans or other cooling devices, you can keep it within operating temps. Home made rigs would be much more difficult, so I see where you are coming from.

The Gast 75R looks promising for an enclosure mounted device, as far as utilizing it's fans to suck in and blow out air. Just picked up the leg kit this morning for a Hoffman box I have here. Gast said these can be mounted in any orientation. I'll fill you in later.

As Bill C said above I do not run my pump during the day only at night so that help my situation out a lot! I don't have any fans but I do have several 3/8ths inch drilled holes in the bottom on the pet crate for the best ventiloation I can get. So far so good.

RC

As long as it works OK, that's all that matters, correct?

I am working on my enclosure. I am thinking of using two fans one to draw air in and one for exhaust. I would like to use dryer vents to direct any noise down. I lined the inside with 1 1/2" foam for sound. Any ideas for a fan? I have been searching the internet for one and haven't come up with one that trips my trigger.

Just a thought...they make cheap dryer vent boost fans. They are like 5 or 10 bucks and fit inside a dryer vent pipe. All the big box stores have them.

BTW IMHO I would only use one fan and put it on the exhaust side. I would position it so the airflow has to go across the compressor motor.

I get my stuff from Saginaw Control & Engineering: http://www.saginawcontrol.com/product-lines/272/273
You can buy your stuff anyplace you want.

You most likely will not need two fans, but do not put your fan on the draw end, but push the air thru.

I'll let someone else here explain that one

OK, waited 2 minutes, times up.

When you draw something thru, you create a lower pressure on the inside, but when you push it thru, you create a higher pressure on the inside. Go to 10,000' elevation and what do you have? Lower pressure, which has considerably less cooling capacity as something at sea level with the higher pressure. Same goes for enclosures that are generating heat. Pull it thru and there is lower pressure, push it thru and there is higher pressure.

Higher pressure = better cooling.

Won't disagree. I will offer why I suggested for an aerator cabinet in a harsh environment, like by a pond, the fan should be on the exhaust. On the inlet side I would place a coarse air filter to prevent bugs, coarse contaminants, etc from entering the cabinet.

so then I would think the inlet side should be larger than the outlet side, right? Is there an easy way to figure out the cfm's needed to pull the proper amount of air through?

No size difference between the inlet and outlet. Two holes have the same area and can only allow so much thru.

Need to know how many BTU's you need to dissipate, and the dimensions of the enclosure.

The home made ones are nearly impossible to work with due to the various sizes, shapes and locations of components.

As has been mentioned before, a fan is better than no fan at all.

And as also been stated many times, it all depends.

IMHO I wouldn't get too hung up on exact sizes. In this case, bigger is of course better than small as everyone knows! Heck a lot of guys just drill holes etc. in the cabinets and let convection heat transfer run its course. As JKB said, any fan is better than none.

Whatever works best for the situation. Aluminum filters work pretty good, but just a standard screen should be sufficient.

Kenz,

FWIW here is a pic of a unit (cover removed) I have from one of the manufactures of turn key systems. The gray rectangle piece in the lower part of the cabinet wall on the far left is the coarse inlet filter. The air enters there and is pulled across the compressor by the exhaust fan located on the far right. It is a 1/3 HP compressor and I THINK the exhaust fan is 140 CFM.

Hope this helps,

Bill D.

I'm no expert! But we all have opinions.
For explosive/flammable/contamination critical installations, definitely pressurize the enclosure so leaks go out and you aren't pulling in bad stuff. This requires you actually design the enclosure. Knowingly consider CFM and size fans and all exhaust port sizes. Otherwise you will not achieve a higher pressure. Think about it, if you just remove one wall, you can pull air in with a fan but the enclosure will be ambient pressure, no positive delta P. Exit velocity has to be high enough to generate a loss.

For aerator cabinets, I doubt we have critical risks so we DIY the design and build and get by with it.

I get the value of filtering BOTH inlet and outlet. A wasp can go in either side when fan is off. You can filter upstream of a fan on the inlet side. We filter inlet air regularly in our line of work... up to 50 lb/sec in one of my favorite playgrounds at work. Not a Lowe's item though.

I can hear my old (deceased) friend and machinist mentor, Dennis, plain as day:

"The hardest thing you have to learn is something I can't teach you. You have to learn to judge when good enough, really is good enough. Every job you take on requires you to do your best, but not every job requires your best work....there's a subtle difference there, but it's an important difference nonetheless. Some fellows never pick up on it. Don't spend a week redesigning a paper clip when the old version holds your notes together just fine"

Your philosophy has served me well, Dennis. Thanks

+1 to old Dennis

I run my pump 24/7 for the summer months and switch to a smaller compressor in the winter and in its current enclosure (aprox. 2'x2'x10")in the middle of summer the pump gets extremely hot and loses pressure. The current enclosure has a 4" grate for the inlet and a 50 cfm blower for the exhaust. My new enclosure will be about 3'x2'x2' with 2" thick walls with 1 1/2" foam to cut down on noise. My thought is to put an exhaust fan up high and in the opposite corner down low have a vent to draw air in. Was looking at the 6" fan on the Saginaw website, thinking getting the shroud for it to cut down compressor noise.

The SCE-CF6 comes from the factory set up for how you want to use it and it fit's nicely behind the 6" rain hood. The 6" fan/filter kit is a push only, which is actually designed for outdoor use with the 6" rain hood. Don't get the Type 12 fan. Although they can be reversed, CFM is lower and they are not really for outdoor stuff.

Hey Spark, if I bring my mower to your shop, am I going to get the philosophy bill with something that may only be good enough for the day, depending if you think it's rated high enough for your best work, or is my mower going to kick butt when you are done with it? That's what anyone would want!

Philosophical renderings are included free of charge in my shop.


....there's a subtle difference there, but it's an important difference nonetheless. Some fellows never pick up on it.

Wise man, that Dennis.

Here is some pics of my enclosure. I have the fan venting out the bottom through the box and the intake coming in through the box to cut down on noise. The box is 1 1/2" foam. I think this weekend I may change the intake vent from a 4"to a 6". The fan is a 6" 290cfm from Vertex and I think the 4" intake is a little restrictive the air is really sucking in.

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Nice! Soldered joints and copper pipe? Fancy!