Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations once great now well not so much

I am new to PB and have been reading posts for a while and haven't found one that is like my situation yet a lot similar but not it. I bought an old cabin on a private 25-30 acre pond two years ago in west central Georgia. I fished it when I was a kid and it was great. Lots of big healthy large mouth and big BG. somehow someone put a few buckets of black crappie in and they took off. The pond had a lot of weed in it (duck weed and other assorted grass) then someone got a great idea to put 100 carp in every year for 5 years. great now I have a pond that is full of small bass I do catch a great one every now and then but not like it once was and all the crappie that have taken over are small like so small as I don't even want to clean them because it’s not worth it. The brim doing great, all sizes with some really good ones. WE have tried to catch every crappie we can as well as taking out all the small bass. to date we have take out sever thousands and haven't seen a difference in the size of the crappie or the bass for that matter. I have taken out a lot of the carp and the ones that are left are over 70 lbs and should die off soon I have a buddy that is bring his bow fishing rig out and handle the rest. I have thought about putting some large flat heads or tiger musky in to eat all the crappie and smaller bass out I also have access to some large chain pickerel and they have done a lot of good in a lake we have down the road but not sure what else to do. It is fairly shallow pond and has some good deep areas it was built in 1928 and the dam was rebuilt in the late 90's. It is creek fed. I have read several posts about crappie messing up the pond and carp messing it up but nothing when both of them mess up a pond. I have put out structure out all over the pond from big rocks rip rap and Christmas trees around and in every instance they hold fish. I also put two of the big plastic baskets that go over man holes during construction out and have been great. I don’t want to drain it and start over to expensive. Any thoughts?

Hey, JWW. While you are waiting to hear from the guys who really know, I thought I'd ask if tiger muskies can survive & thrive in this lake. Isn't Georgia a little too far south for them?

I was thinking that as well. I talked to a guy and he said they would die earlier but would still get a good bit of them thinned out before hand.

If you could only find a musky x chain pickeral hybrid instead of a musky x Northern Pike hybrid.....I alsway thought that would make a nice option for more southern ponds like yours....

Hope he's right about the TM living long enough to help. When I lived in central Ohio I belonged to a private fishing club which stocked 25 TM in 22 acre lake and they grew well. In fact, they just stocked 25 more to help thin out stunted bass.

However, that is in a much cooler climate in a deep lake (plus 30 feet in many areas) where the TM can easily escape the heat.

Good luck with them, hope it works out well. They are very fast growing and a blast to fight, I can tell you that! Had one take a ten inch bass one time...

I would like to have the TM in the pond to catch but I'm not sure if I'm wasting money and time with them. Do yall think the Flat-heads and Pickerel will do enough work? any other suggestions on how to get the pond back in line? Bobby that would be a fun cross wonder if there are any mad scientist that would give that a try for us.

In that big of a pond your not going to get rid of that problem I bet ever. You may control it some but I don't think it's going away period.

Amazing to me the mess that CP can make. Even in a pond that size!

How many TM did you plan to put in there??

I still think your doing the best by fishing for them and keep everyone you catch. Think about it. You and another guy can go out and catch 100 to 200 in a night. Think how long it would take 5 or 6 TM to catch that many. That's if they don't eat any bass or BG.

I don't know sounds like a never ending problem now.... Sorry man

RC

Yeah I thought that would be the case, just dont want it to be. i was going to put in 40 and about the same in 5 to 6 pound flathead cats i figured they could help me out when i couldn't fish. i have taken out over a thousand since this January just taking out my kids and some of their friends. i dont mind the crappie i love eating them but they are so small and have messed up the bass. i am wondering if i need to put more brim in as well as some shiners. i need to put out more structure for the smaller bait fish to hide. dont know. the crappie and carp mix is not a fun problem. i know i wont be able to fix it short term but I would like to catch decent bass again there.

I would not put in flatheads, they will eat your larger BG also! They will eat anything!! And they get hook shy! That's just me tho. 40 TM will do some damage I would go with that first! One thing I have learned is don't swing the bar to far the other way to fast! You could end up with even more problems. I would do the TM and continue to fish. Then go from there! Not sure if 40 is the right number tho?? That' 2 per acre I know they are somewhat territorial but not sure how much?? At least the TM's would be a blast to catch at some point!

When I see problems like this one I am somewhat glad my pond is only 1 acre! There is a point in pond management where big is not necessarily better!

Good Luck man,
RC

sure would be nice to find out how the TM would do in a warm pond...

Pure musky are the most tolerant of warm waters as compared to NP or TM. I've never caught one, but have seen pure musky caught in the lower Potomac River where DO usually isn't an issue, but water temps regularly get into the mid 90's.

Interesting idea! Does anybody know if anyone is looking into this?

I am not aware of any documented natural crosses of muskyxCP. I am not saying it is not possibly as it may very well be. I do know of natural CPxNP crosses and muskyxNP crosses.

it is nice to have a bigger pond in some aspects but when it goes down hill it is a big pain to get right. I do have access to put in some larger bass and BG as well do yall think it would be good or bad? I would love to know who or where some one would cross the CP and Musky to see if it would work. also on the TM What would the rate be 1 per acre or two per. I was thinking 2 because it is in GA and not sure if they would all survive so the more out there the more that have a chance to survive.

No on the bass, BG I think I'd save the time and energy... As far as the TM, it'd depend on the size of the stockers. If large, no more than 1 per acre, probably closer to 1 per 2 acres. If less than 12" expect predation losses and stock 1 to 1.5 per acre.

thanks good info. anything on adding bait fish like shiners crayfish or other? I am not sure if that would help the existing bass get a bit of a jump in size. i have been taking out the skinny ones and the ones that i catch that look healthy i put back.

No I wouldn't do bait fish. I would do larger BG before I did bait fish. Think about it. The bait fish would be ate pretty much in a week or so I bet! Some might survive but 90 percent or more would get ate.

If you put some large BG in there 7 plus inches I remember Eric saying larger mature BG could have as many as 35,000 eggs in one summer!!

That's why Bob says all the time that the BG are the backbone for your LMB when it comes to feeding them!

This is only if your going to do one or the other. If it were me I would do larger BG over baitfish.

RC

I understand i guess i miss stated my question. Should I try and establish other bait fish than BG i have Redear there as well but any other supplemental forage? or just feed the BG and put other Larg BG in?

tilapia?

I wouldn't I mean where else can you get 10 or 15 thousand baby bait fish for as cheep as 1 large BG?

Redear don't spawn enough but they are needed as a maintenance fish!

If you could section off part of your pond you could maybe get some Golden Shiners going... but to just put them in your pond without any protection I think would be a waste!


RC

ok so my best course of action can be stocking 1 to 1.5 TM per acre and keep catching crappie as often as i can keeping everyone of them as well as keeping all small skinny bass and put as bunch of large BG in the pond and let them do what they do all summer.Thanks Guys for the help. I do enjoy running ideas by other guys that have the same addictions that I have.I can only bounce Ideas around in my own head for so long. Would HSB do well in the pond or do I need an established shad population to have them?

I would agree with RC51 on the BG, with a minor correction in that the 35000 eggs he's referring to is per spawn! With 1-3 spawns per season,,, or more?

Hopefully leading to this:

JWW, I seem to recall some folks have had success controlling BCP with HSB. You might want to check on that with the experts.

Oh wow per spawn! Dang it man!! That's a whole lot of babies!!! I thought it was in a summer!! Wow no wonder you can get over run with BG in a big hurry!!

RC

Might be of interest...Here is an old thread where Bob Lusk weighed in on the subject of stunted crappies...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=263583

...Bottomline from that thread, if you are not willing to nuke the pond then, stock and manage for LMB to control the stunted BCP problem.

FWIW IMHO I would think if you add TM you will end up with a pond of big TM and small BCP. The TM will also make establishing a good LMB population in the future difficult. From what I have read here at the forum, TM is sometimes considered when the LMB are stunted, not stunted BCP.