Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose HSB Only Pond?

Gentlemen,

I have been lurking for sometime now and have learned a lot. This site is wealth of knowledge.

POND SPECs
- renovated .5-.7 acre pond
- max depth 7-8 feet (2/3rds of the pond)
- slightly run off fed, but primarily fed by a dedicated ground well
- surrounded by hardwood/pines in southwest TN - partially shaded from sun a fair portion of the day
- has been full for 4 months - nothing but frogs as of right now

FACTS
- I have no issue feeding quality fish food - I'm leaning towards a TH feeder since can be a few weeks between visits
- would rather not aerate and understand the limitations
- understand I need to get a water test completed and treat for PH (most likely)

If I want HSB only pond what are my limitations? How many or how much weight are safe for pond this size. I feel no need to push the limits, but I was thinking of maximizing my biomass just with the HSB. Other then putting back in what I take out and feeding, I wasn't looking for any more management. Typical water quality upkeep and care not a problem.

What issues will arise in the future. As weeds grow I will control with grass carp. Without smaller fish am I missing an important factor in the maintaining the body of water for the HSB.

Any recommended HSB suppliers in the area? The local co-op was no help. I'd like to stock a variety of sizes to get the pond fishable right away and maintain from there?

I'm sure I'm missing something and I appreciate your help.

Shannon


A photo as the pond was filling:

SRK welcome,

An all HSB pond! I remember a story I think it was Bruce that told it. He has a 1.5 acre pond over loaded with HSB on purpose just to see how long he could get by with it! I remember him saying they had a blast until one day he want down there and they were all floating! Of course that don't apply to your situation but the all HSB pond would be fun no matter how many your have in there!

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give you a better number then I could give but I will take a stab at it.

If that's all you put in there plus maybe baitfish and you feed them. I would venture to say you could put 35 to 40 fish in there maybe 50. Keep in mind that don't seem like much at first but when they start to grow and hit that 3 or 4 or even 5 pound mark then all of a sudden that's a lot of fish for a .7 acre pond! Not sure where you could get them where you are at? Here in Arkansas I use a place called Keo's Fish Farm. Maybe you could look them up and call them and ask. They may know someone near you? Keo's has good fish and all they do is HSB.

Let see what someone else has to say. I may be way off on my 40 to 50 fish? Is that a fountain in the middle of that pond?? That will help some for D.O.

RC

Shannon, I believe HSB only stocked in a 1/2+ acre pond is not only feasable but an outstanding oportumity to grow the best trophy size sport fish available for small ponds.

In fact I have done it sucessfuly and continue to this day catching nIce size HSB after adding LMB to control CNBG stocked at a later time.

Big warning however - the only documented failure I know of was a pond in Piney Woods area with acidic soils - HSB require hard and high alkilinity water - you did mention high Ph - many members on the forum can advise about water testing - I am sure they will chime in.

IMO, HSB are the very best sport fish that can be stocked in small ponds - expecially for fly fishing!

I stockedd FHM in high numbers prior to stocking fingerling HSB - be prepared for a big feed bill. Aeration has not been required in our 1/4 acre pond.

My intial stocking was 100 HSB fingerlings and I would not hesitate to stock more in a 1/2 acre pond but I push the envelope.
Good luck finding suppliers in your area.

George Glazener

An all HSB pond is a novel idea. It will be an educational study for all of us. It was B.Condello that had the overstocked HSB pond. I am trying to get him to write an article in PBoss magazine about details of the full story. Bruce's main problem as I recall is he did not have adequate aeration and the fish biomass became too great for the size of the upper mixing zone of the pond. Some form of midsummer pond turnover and resulting oxygen shortage probably is what killed his fish.

I think the stocking suggestion of RC51 is reasonable. If we assume your pond is 0.6ac and 50 HSB grow to 5 lbs each that equates by my calculation to 416 lbs per acre. Double check the length and width of the pond to verify its correct size. Allow for drought conditions and reduce pond size. A total of 30 10 lb HSB is 300 lbs and equates to 664 lbs/ac. This is a realistic biomass providing you add bottom aeration. You could initially add more HSB (60-70) with the intent or removing 10-20 as the fish get to the 2-3 lb range and remove several more as they grow to 8-10 lbs. You will find that the smaller 2-3 lb HSB are the easiest to clean and are the best eating.

The current fountain aerator is not turning over the entire pond water column and you will need daily turnover to keep the water quality adequate for a growing increased fish biomass. Update and upgrade your aerator. One example is:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=407162#Post407162

The stocking can be done all at once or with 'ladder stocking'; adding some each year to replace what has been harvested and the natural mortality. Stocking a range of sizes is a possibility if you can find a supplier with multiple sizes. Initially the adding of a forage fish will help keep the HSB growing when pellets are not available and to supplement their food when pellets are not enough to satiate their hunger. A supplemental forage fish is not necessary but it will add some improvement of the HSB growth rate.

Please keep us updated about your interesting project. We can all learn more from your fish growing adventure.

100 HSB in a 1/4 acre pond! Wow George you are pushing it! Every have any problems with that many? Ever lose any? What's your average size fish weigh?

RC

Bill, George and RC,

Thanks for the replies. I have read many of your posts and appreciate the feedback.

I wont push the limits. I rather spend more time, energy and funds towards feed and restocking in order to the enjoy the pond and fishing. Trying to manage an inevitable collapse by pushing the limits I will leave for others and learn from their experiences.

The "fountain" is actually the well water pipe under the pond and shot up at a 90 degrees. I'd figure it might help a little with some DO and provide a little aesthetics.

George - great photos! Even better information. Once complete, I hit you up for your fly tackle recommendations.

50 or so fish at varying sizes from 5-7 inches upto 12 plus is where I will start. Fishing pressure will be high and I will replace in the spring and fall as needed depending on what comes out. I rather be more then safe and do not want to push limits or aerate.

I was going to bypass the forage fish, since I was going to feed. However, since I won't be home in time (deployed to AFG) to stock until June, it might be too warm for the HSB. If I stocked some forage fish this summer and followed with the HSB in fall, would there be any issues?


Link to where I can get HSB - Any feedback on them?
https://www.jonesfish.com/content/hybrid-striped-bass

Shannon

RC, I have been in this HSB business for some 11 years and there is some good info in the archives. This pond was built to grow out HSB to some 8-10 inches to avoid being expensive fish food when caught and transferred to main pond. It was strictly a HSB fly fishing grow out pond until we added CNBG and added LMB for control purposes and kept in balance with no aeration.

IMO, bottom diffuser aeration is a waste of money in 7-8 ft max southern ponds because all it will do is circulate water since there is likely no thermocline - I have never had a fish kill in my 1/4 acre pond that I am aware of - if aeration is required in a shallow pond a surface aerator would add sufficient O2 - based on recommendation from one of the best fisheries biologists in our area - Todd Overton.

If I was starting from scratch as Shannon is, I would stock in lower numbers IF I had no mortality from stress in hot weather or from harvest for table fare. I have used a stocking ladder for years to replace harvested or transferred fish.

Fish size in our 1/4 acre pond will run about 5+ lbs max - likely much larger in Shannon's 1/2+ acre pond in Tenneessee with likely cooler summers than in Texas.

I love HSB - my favorite pond fish!
G/

Wow thanks for that info G. So I'm guessing in my 1 acre pond my HSB could get to 6 plus pounds then? I was very surprised when I caught that near 4 pounder the other day! They are fun for sure!!

RC

100, 5# HSB would only be 2000 pounds of bio-mass per surface acre. A 1/4 acre, 6ft avg depth pond, fed and aerated should easily handle that. Not all that densely stocked, in production pond standards, and would make what it is, an awesome fishing pond!

There ought to be closer suppliers of HSB to you than Jones. Do some more homework. Check if there is an aquaculture organization with membership in TN. For stocking HSB, often it is better to stock them when the water is a little warmer and around 70F. HSB often will have poor survival due to cold water fungus when stocked in cooler water 60-65F. Double check with fish farms in your area about the stocking in warmer water that relates to when you are ready to stock.

Tennessee Aquaculture Association, Tennessee Aquarium
PO Box 11048, Chattanooga TN 37401
(423)785-4072 rjm@tennis.org

Production pond standards requires daily or constant monitoring of water quality and knowledge of exactly what to do, when or even before conditions deteriorate. Many production facilities have had massive mortalities learning what to do, what not to do, and when and how to do it. It is a steep learning curve that often puts some places out of business.

I have had no problem stocking HSB in cold weather/water, as long as they are well acclimated, tempered, and handled gently. On the other hand, There have been times when large quantities got stocked too quickly at "optimum" temps and had near total mortality because they were not fully acclimated and tempered. Another biggie with HSB is osmotic shock! They are often hauled using heavy salt concentrations. Not acclimating them well makes them shock easily when put into low salinity water.

I'd stock FHM this spring and then stock the largest YOY HSB you can source this fall. These large YOY are often referred to as "shooters". When you stock the HSB this fall, good shooters being born in spring and fall stocked should be approaching 10-12" and a minimum of 8". I'd also stock a small number, just a pound or so of brooder size GSH that fall. Then each fall you can ladder stock more YOY HSB. Cannibalism from larger adult HSB on stocked fish should be very minimal if at all. The FHM and GSH will be excellent forage for when the HSB are extra hungry or your feeder malfunctions or runs out of feed. If you are not a live on the property pond owner, I'd be sure to have a back up food source. When stocking the FHM and GSH, be extra careful to hand sort them. You absolutely do not want contamination from unwanted species in this stocking set up.

Good advice and reasons for stocking some sort of forage fish assuming SRK wants optimum or good growth of the HSB. If average to mediocre growth is acceptable then adding forage fish is not really necessary. SRK your choice, your pond, you decide, you are in control. As usual it all depends.

Thanks for the advice. How much FHM forage should I be looking to stock?

Since I will have to replace the HSB I take out, I could always add some forage fish when the truck make its rounds. Faster growing and healthy fish are the goal. The FHM cost is probably worth the small added cost and good insurance if the feeder quits. Wonder how long they will last? Any best practices and checking their numbers?

Shannon

For a HSB pond with initial stocking 4-6 fingerlings, I would stock FHM early spring then stock inxpensive 4-6 inch HSB in late fall, They will be a pound a year later with a good feeding program. As stated earlier I would stock a minimum of 100 YOY to save money for more expensive 8-10 inch ladder fish in later years.

I would avoid fish truck FHM like the plague to avoid stocking unwanted species

I do not agree with recommendations to stock any other forage fish at this time unless you do not get the desired growth, which I believe you will with a good feeding program. You can always add forage fish later, but hard to remove if not useful.

As an avid fly fisherman, my ¼ acre brood pond has been my favorite HSB pond. I avoid HSB morrtality from stress in warm weather months by landing fish as fast as possible, resuscitate and release. I do have an O2 live well that is very useful - I recall having lost only one HSB over the past 10 years.

Yeah, I would love to start all over with a HSB fly fishing pond but it has become a good a kid’s pond and continue to catch a 4-5 lb HSB from time to time.

Good luck and have fun,
George

SRK - first, welcome to Pond Boss.

I too think you are making a very good move, and will have a great time with them.

I'm still not sure if I made a mistake, or not. I put a dozen fat 12-14 inch HSB in a 0.7 acre pond at the end of last November. It is pretty much a conventional pond with LMB, BG, RES, and a few very large and recalcitrant catfish that I hopefully will remove this season. It is managed for large blugill and RES, mostly by having a lot of undersized LMB.

This pond also maintains a small population of fairly large black crappie. I seldom catch more than 15 or 20 in a season, and most of those are caught at this time of year.

And that is where I envy what you should be able to do.

This spring I've gotten to where I can't use an ultralight for the crappie and bluegill in that pond. The HSB are just plain vicious, and grab anything that looks like bait. They are as strong as oxen. I'm afraid to use the ultralight because it will takes a lot of effort to pull in the HSB, which are now mostly in the 15-16 inch range.

At the same time, I also put some HSB in a hybrid bluegill/channel catfish put-and-take 1/3 acre pond that only became ice free about two weeks ago. So far, that pond has been so cold that those fish have not really been active. I wish I would have put nearly all the HSB in that pond, as the hybrid bluegill are just as voracious and vicious as the HSB. Once they start feeding, the HBG don't let a bait go unmolested for more than a few seconds.

Anyway, good luck in your endeavor. Please keep us informed of progress.

Ken