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Joined: Apr 2005
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Lunker
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History is: 2 acre lake Deep S. Tx Baitfish to go Feeders in place for forage fish 200 fingerlings released last spring They were 11-12" in January
Question is how many do I need to remove this first year?
I'm sure there is no set answer but any advice is appreciated.
Billy Klemstein
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In general, you shouldn't need to remove any of your original stocked fish unless you over stocked them to begin with. You begin removing their offspring... It's likely yourbass will spawn for the first time this spring. If not, definitely next spring.
What are the goals of your pond? That also dictates initial stocking numbers and subsequent removal numbers and timing...
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I personally think we overstocked but that is what was recommended to is. Goal is for a healthy population but lean towards low numbers and larger fish.
Billy Klemstein
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In the first year of my pond someone bucket stocked LMB and by the end of that year I had hundreds so I don't see that you could hardly keep up with them after this springs spawn . Last year the baby LMB went from birth to 12" plus so yours will more than likely will to then you will have a mess of em IMHO that's what happened to me
Pat
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Billy, 100 LMB in my opinion is a bit heavy for a balanced and especially a fishery goal of growing larger bass. I would consider removing 30-50, taking out those that are the lowest performing. Try to remove as many as you can before they spawn this spring if possible...
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Remove maybe 100 if you want fewer but larger fish. They will start out pretty dumb but will learn quickly.
That said, all 100% probably didn't survive. But, they are getting to the point where they will spawn. And South Texas will have a long growing season to clobber the forage base.
If you see one(or more) that clearly is outgrowing the others, keep it in the gene pool.
Billy, are these native Texas bass or?
Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 03/15/15 07:37 PM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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let me say I have no personal experience when it comes to pulling LMB from my pond, but the stocking rate of lmb u mentioned was the same rate I was recommended @ 50 per acre. And from all I have read, I do not plan to pull any lmb from my pond until it's 3rd yr. And I will try to pull every male lmb I can catch at that point at lest over 100 minimum. I am pretty sure I can pick the males from females starting in February through April. I think from what I understand, it is all about the forage fish for the first 3 yr's. But I am no expert when it comes to growing big lmb Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Your bass at 11"-12", I think will spawn this spring. The offspring are the ones that will cause a big part of your future bass over population problems. I agree with those above if you are looking for generally larger bass; remove 50-100 from the 2 acres this spring and summer. Your advisor was looking to sell fish, not necessarily in your best interest for growing larger bass. Pay attention to how many small bass you have this fall. If they appear commonplace, remove a quite a few of them over the next 1-3 yrs. Do you seem to have numerous 2"-4" forage fish??? Do you use fish tarps or seining to monitor relative numbers of forage fish??
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/13/15 01:04 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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200 not 100 originally stocked and yes I questioned that number as well but allowed it to happen. The are supposed to be a combination of natives and F-1's???? At least I think that is what I was told? So my thinking was removing the lesser quality fish and a BUNCH of them this spring/summer so I will begin that process.
Billy Klemstein
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Your bass at 11"-12", I think will spawn this spring. The offspring are the ones that will cause a big part of your future bass over population problems. I agree with those above if you are looking for generally larger bass; remove 50-100 from the 2 acres this spring and summer. Your advisor was looking to sell fish, not necessarily in your best interest for growing larger bass. Pay attention to how many small bass you have this fall. If they appear commonplace, remove a quite a few of them over the next 1-3 yrs. Do you seem to have numerous 2"-4" forage fish??? Do you use fish tarps or seining to monitor relative numbers of forage fish?? Nothing fancy to monitor forage fish. About as scientific as we get is looking at the number of baitfish that come to the feeder when it goes off and it is a LOT. Won't last if I don't get some of those bass out though!
Last edited by bklem; 03/14/15 10:16 AM.
Billy Klemstein
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let me say I have no personal experience when it comes to pulling LMB from my pond, but the stocking rate of lmb u mentioned was the same rate I was recommended @ 50 per acre. And from all I have read, I do not plan to pull any lmb from my pond until it's 3rd yr. And I will try to pull every male lmb I can catch at that point at lest over 100 minimum. I am pretty sure I can pick the males from females starting in February through April. I think from what I understand, it is all about the forage fish for the first 3 yr's. But I am no expert when it comes to growing big lmb Tracy OOP'S my mistake ere and to clarify my fish guy did not recommend 50 per acre, we discussed 150 for a 3.52 acre pond. I do not want anyone to think they would recommends to just sell fish. And my plans are to do some pretty heavy forage stocking and selective culling. Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Fingerling
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Utilize LMB's relative weight index to cull the under performing bass, keep bass that are in the 90 percentile. These are the bass you want as I read from original post.
Good land management is an extended learning experience-Aldo Leopold
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Consider this. In my opinion a new pond with lots of forage prior to stocking can initially have too many 90 percentile LMB due to overabundant forage. Everything in the fishery appears fantastic. As the too numerous fat bass (predators) continue to grow they eat more annually. If the predator numbers of even fat fish are not thinned / adjusted early enough the forage eventually becomes over consumed - almost always. This I think happens often due to the bass annually recruiting too many bass. When bass weigh loss occurs, the pond owner's first response usually is ADD MORE FORAGE which is great for the fish farm. The key here is knowing the balance point. It is not easy.
Because too many fat predators were allowed to eat and grow, the forage community sooner or later becomes too few and the pond owner has to play catch up by either adding more forage or scrambling to remove bass that are now too numerous and loosing weight. Do you recall ever hearing this same story? It is a common one. I think it is often better to have too few fat predators with ample forage which is sometimes achieved one way by removing fat predators before the forage is depleted to the point of predator weight loss. Knowing proper harvest is important to maintaining balance. Once weight loss is recognized, it is back to playing catch up for the forage community. Maintaining a great, balanced, high quality fishery long term is similar to raising kids - difficult.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/15/15 03:44 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Consider this. In my opinion a new pond with lots of forage prior to stocking can initially have too many 90 percentile LMB due to overabundant forage. Everything in the fishery appears fantastic. As the too numerous fat bass (predators) continue to grow they eat more annually. If the predator numbers of even fat fish are not thinned / adjusted early enough the forage eventually becomes over consumed - almost always. This I think happens often due to the bass annually recruiting too many bass. When bass weigh loss occurs, the pond owner's first response usually is ADD MORE FORAGE which is great for the fish farm. The key here is knowing the balance point. It is not easy.
Because too many fat predators were allowed to eat and grow, the forage community sooner or later becomes too few and the pond owner has to play catch up by either adding more forage or scrambling to remove bass that are now too numerous and loosing weight. Do you recall ever hearing this same story? It is a common one. I think it is often better to have too few fat predators with ample forage which is sometimes achieved one way by removing fat predators before the forage is depleted to the point of predator weight loss. Knowing proper harvest is important to maintaining balance. Once weight loss is recognized, it is back to playing catch up for the forage community. Maintaining a great, balanced, high quality fishery long term is similar to raising kids - difficult. So take a bunch out no matter what they look like right now?
Billy Klemstein
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If Cody says it you can take it to the bank.
Good catch, I meant to say 100% and have corrected it.
One often quoted statistic is that a bass needs to eat 10 pounds of forage to gain one pound. What looks like a LOT of BG doesn't last long when those murderers get started.
Josh Flowers is also right when he says use a relative weight chart to do your culling. If you see what looks like an over performer relative to the others, keep it. After the 2nd year, eliminate everything 13 or 14 inches and under unless it looks like a football. Those will be your jumpers, string stretchers, and/or hog outs.
It is said that the most successful rancher is a grass farmer. I believe the most successful bass farmer is a bluegill grower who doesn't keep too many predators for the forage base. Some of those bluegills will have to be 6 to 8 inches to feed the bigger bass that you want to grow.
Cody Note: My advice above is for a goal of growing good numbers of big trophy bass not necessarily numerous 2 to 5 lb bass. Don't take everything I say to the bank; often they won't cash it.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/16/15 09:21 AM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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OK so for some reasons beyond my control, I believe that taking enough bass out this first year is going to be next to impossible. We just do not get down to the ranch often enough to harvest that many fish. I know this isn't perfect but tell me if I am crazy with this band aid of a solution.
1. Take as many bass out as I can this first year but obviously probably not enough. 2. Offset the number of bass by adding tons of bait fish including tilapia. 3. Realizing the addition of this many bodies could cause a biomass issue, install one or two aerators.
Is this my best option? Any other ideas? Thanks for ya'lls help.
Billy Klemstein
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It's a short term band-aid at best. The aeration is a good idea regardless... Definitely try to get as many bass out as you can. The tilapia should take pressure off your BG but bass need to be removed as it's a compounding issue over time.
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It's a short term band-aid at best. The aeration is a good idea regardless... Definitely try to get as many bass out as you can. The tilapia should take pressure off your BG but bass need to be removed as it's a compounding issue over time. Agree that it is a short term cure but you think it would help at least, correct?
Billy Klemstein
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If you have enough money for a ranch then hire the pond to be electroshocked and pay them by the number of bass removed. Decide if you want the fish to be invited to dinner or give them to the electroshocker.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,166 Likes: 496
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You want another good idea? Go to a nearby sportsmen club and tell them you have a bounty on your bass of a certain size range such as 8"-12". Tell members that you will pay a certain amount for each bass they catch and remove. Make them follow your angler rules (on a hand out) if they want the privilege to fish.
Another way is to go to a local bait shop or most any store (grocery, sporting, or even an army vet place or retirement center) that has a bulletin board and post a note with your phone number asking for people interested in fishing for money. You will be flooded with people wanting to fish. Make them follow your angler rules and maybe tell them they cannot fish unless supervised by you while you are around. Pay less for each bass removed than what the electroshocker will charge you - maybe $0.50-$1.00 each. Many will even fish for free if you give them the bass to take home.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/20/15 07:01 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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You want another good idea? Go to a nearby sportsmen club and tell them you have a bounty on your bass of a certain size range such as 8"-12". Tell members that you will pay a certain amount for each bass they catch and remove. Make them follow your angler rules (on a hand out) if they want the privilege to fish.
Another way is to go to a local bait shop or most any store (grocery, sporting, or even an army vet place or retirement center) that has a bulletin board and post a note with your phone number asking for people interested in fishing for money. You will be flooded with people wanting to fish. Make them follow your angler rules and maybe tell them they cannot fish unless supervised by you while you are around. Pay less for each bass removed than what the electroshocker will charge you - maybe $0.50-$1.00 each. Many will even fish for free if you give them the bass to take home. If this was possible then no doubt that would be the route to go but unfortunately this is not MY ranch. It is actually a very high end deer lease that I manage for a friend and access is very minimal per the landowners. Soooo, that being said, your first recommendation to have the lake shocked and removing the bass that way is definitely the best option. So simple it never crossed my mind. Thanks a bunch!!!!
Last edited by bklem; 03/21/15 10:13 PM.
Billy Klemstein
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With LMB electroshock removal is great. It has several advantages over fishing for removal. The main one is you are not removing the fish most likely to bite . Do a search for catchability and its problems.
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Glad I found this thread. Gives me some good , future insight as I am adding LMB in the next couple of weeks.
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Geoff,
You have a unique situation with all the different species of small SF in your pond. IMO you will have a blast with the LMB in there. What size LMB are you stocking?
Please keep us posted on how it goes.
Bill D.
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