Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations The winter, pellet feeding debate! Results are in!

My take on it, is yes, pellets will add nutrients to the water. Another reason I don't use sinking pellets. I have enough nutrients and have to fight off FA as it is.

I didn't read sparkplugs article. I believe that people who want large fish are reading too much into the scientific effect of nutrition. IE fats , amino acids , carbs, and whatnot. I have not seen any analysis of the fat content of a frog, a tadpole, threadfin shad, golden shiners, fathead minnows, crawfish, small turtles, a broad spectrum of insects which are largely protein or any of the many many other menu items for Bass and bream. The fish certainly do not take any of this into account when they are hungry. You will never see a bream or bass grab a forage item, flip it over and look for the crude analysis on the back before consumption.

Adding to this. Here are two more monster bream caught today, Feb, 23, 2015, the first at 12:48 pm central time. The second fish at 1:15 pm central.
There are not just a few of these in my pond as has been suggested. These are not freak fish that vastly outgrew the others. I do not know what more I can do to make people believe. I brought the results, and the photos don't lie.
These fish have grown vastly through my winter feeding program. That is glaringly obvious.


And this Monster. Caught at 1:15 pm.

Tony - for my situation in the midwest, I concur. In our fertile NE ponds, wasted pellets [floating onto shoreline or sinking to pond bottom] merely exacerbate excessive nutrient load issues and lead to vegetation control issues, water quality issues, and possibly fish kill scenarios. However, for BOWs that are infertile, these nutrients may be useful. Think Richmond Mill - perfect example of pellets helping to improve fertility in an otherwise nearly sterile, highly acidic/low PH BOW. Feeding created an outstanding fishery under Lusk direction which never existed prior.

I can buy into that. If a BOW is infertile to begin with, then maybe there will be some benefit. However I still question whether or not you are feeding the fish directly, or applying fertilizer by feeding sinking pellets. Stimulating the natural forage chain by fertilization sounds great, but I'm not sure high dollar fish pellets would be my first choice in that application, were I the one tasked with paying for the feed.

I read a little on the American Sportfish page. I think the statement that Coppernose Bluegills take to feed more readily than "common"? bluegills might be worthy of it's own investigation.

Yeah, my pond to be is located on an acidic pine plantation. I'll have to lime as the water will likely be rather infertile otherwise. Don't want to use feed purely as fertilizer, of course, but I could tolerate a limited amount of uneaten stuff.

Anth - good post, this makes sense in your scenario it seems. Little extra nutrient level isn't going to impact your fishery or water negatively. Up here on my ponds it's all we can do to try and avoid excess loads. Less room for error - that's why I feed in short bursts [1-2 seconds] 10-15 minutes apart so fewer pellets will drift to banks or sink. Sinking food for me is only used in cages when feed training BG, YP, SMB, etc - and that's a AM 400 float sink. I still see a lot of it ending up on pond bottom with my AquaVu micro camera...rarely witness fish clean it up from pond bottom unfortunately.

Beautiful CNBG Jason - I think our CNBG are kinfolk!

George that is an outstanding Coppernose.
It does appear we have the same strain.


That is just a gorgeous fish man. I would have to mount a fish like that.
Mine have a ways to go yet. My fish will be 1 year on may 17. I have 3 months to go.

I figure by September I'll have some semi trophy size coppernose in my pond. If the growth rate of my fish are any indication of what's to come, there will be some very nice bream in my pond.

Tony, TJ, I think all 3 of us are pretty much feeding the same way. IMO, short observed feedings are the ticket in the winter. Which begs another question.

What's winter when dealing with CNBG? Is it water temp? If so, then mine feed most of the winter also. But, 45-55 degrees isn't winter water here. Many days the CNBG will consume a full throw in a matter of minutes in 45-55 degree water. Their metabolism is certainly more amped up than in 32-39 degree water, so feeding may actually add weight during those "warm ups".

Not sure what my water temp is, but my brood pond will have a solid sheet of ice on it by tomorrow. The edges of both the big puddle and the brood pond are gaining ice quickly. I think any conversation about CNBG feeding in winter is meritless unless water temperature is taken into account. A 5-10 degree change in 90 degree water seems to have little effect on CNBG activities of any kind, but a 5-10 degree difference at 50 degrees is a very big deal.

I was bored so I hit the big puddle with a fly rod today and stood in 2" of sleet. I assure you they weren't feeding, or biting.

When I think of winter, I think of ice covered ponds, brown grass and no leaves on the trees. You sure wouldn't be outside without a long sleeve shirt, jacket and hat.

Jason, what are your winter water temps? What temp is the water that the CNBG are actively feeding in?

I also will feed limited amounts during the cold water period, but mostly to the HBG..they tend to be more receptive to feeding at cold temps than the northern BG in our ponds. I guess if I had to pin down a number, It would be mid forties (water temps) as my cut-off point. And even at those temps I feed extra sparingly, and only during those time periods where we have had a few days where the high air temps reached the low fifties, with the forecast calling for same over the next couple days. I truly wonder if the HBG would eat whether it was in their best interest, health wise, or not. It certainly appears that might be the case.

And to reiterate, I don't worry about my fish consuming natural forage during the cold water period. It's the processed protein that I wonder about.

In that respect, I have always based my feeding decisions on water temps, but air warms up much quicker...and I have personally observed my bluegills becoming more aggressive on feed during a brief warm up of air temps, when the much slower to react water temps were still quite low.

Good point. I wonder if this discussion wouldn't be more meaningful if the word "winter" is replaced with "cold water" and define what cold water is, perhaps 45 degrees or less.

Bingo!

Scott, I’ll give you some temp numbers for CNBG feeding activity.
It’s not a matter of absolute temp numbers but relative numbers based not only on the direction of temp change but on rate of change of near surface water temps.
Our CNBG will slow down from ~50 F until they stop feeding about 45 degrees.
They will begin feeding at ~45F and increase activity upon warming temps.
G/

Sometimes it's the simplest things...... nice, Al!

Methinks progress has been made.

Tony I hope progress is being made. This is an extremely interesting and important aspect of southern fisheries management, and there's no reason for it to hit the crapper because of unchecked testosterone.

I'm done with this one.

IMHO Should anyone ever decide to start a cold water feeding thread, I suggest starting with this quote from George. Just the facts based on his observations. Now to me, this is useful info!

I'll throw some more fuel on this fire.

I have a max depth 14' BOW, just dug it deeper last summer, that is just over .10 acres. I tried to feed in the winter and failed. My fish are all trout, browns and rainbows with some golden rainbows as well. They literally will NOT take feed when my water hits just over 40 degrees. I can go days, try again, they won't take the feed. My pond gets its water from run off and geo thermal furnace discharge and is aerated all year long.

My neighbor has a pond same size in every way. His HOWEVER has an artesian well intake of 60GPM and his water does not get below 40 degrees ever. He'll get a skiff of ice on the top when it's 0 or less but the water just under that is much warmer, always at least 40. He has the EXACT same fish as me, same supplier as well. His inlet temperature is 52 degrees and does a great job regulating his water temp after it makes its way down his 60 foot creek we made.

My neighbor feeds his fish the same food I do. His fish TAKE the feed even when there's a skiff of ice on the top of the water and -9 outside! His fish are growing like CRAZY and have put on HUGE weight and inches this winter. My fish are doing nothing under the ice, caught a few ice fishing and they haven't done squat.

What I can't figure out is why his fish are taking feed now when mine shut down back in early November. My water temp in November was just over 40 degrees and his is just barely over 40 degrees now. Yet his fish act like it's a nice spring day and nail that feed, they are growing while mine are not as a result.

I am not a pro so take this with the proverbial grain of salt. FWIW Maybe it is at least partly explained by DO content of the water. Your neighbor is supplying his pond with high DO water after running thru the stream. If your geo is like mine, the water is piped directly from my well, thru the geo unit and then to the pond. Water as it comes from a well has near 0 dissolved O2. I have my winter diffuser located to keep open water over my geo discharge and the flow is directed across the diffuser in an effort to at least partially aerate it as it comes into the pond.

Edit: Your geo is also cooling your well water so you may be actually pumping colder water into your pond than your neighbor

tim - I think if the water temps at 3 ft to the bottom are measured, the temps of your neighbor's pond will be noticably warmer than your pond. I am guessing your pond temps from 3-4ft to bottom are 39-40F and those of your neighbor's pond are around 44-48F enough of a difference to stimulate active trout feeding.

My geo water runs 150' through 4" corrugated tubing. My guess is that my water gets pretty oxygenated. I also have the aerator running all winter. I should have DO readings in the max range come even fall. I'm not dismissing your theory Bill D., just challenging it. My neighbors water is about 45 degrees, in this current climate, when it comes off the mouth of his "creek". I think the stats on the geo water is cooling about 6 to 8 degrees when heating? If that is true, my discharge would be about 45, the same as his creek is.

All this aside, his water is, RIGHT NOW, colder then mine is in the fall. His fish still feed.

I believe this is an example of why nobody should ever use absolutes when discussing not only what fish will do but ANYTHING.

I make guns, when I started doing it there were ideas I had that the "experts" at the time said wouldn't work. I did those things, I did them well, and they weren't supposed to work. Now some people even look to me as an expert. I will not ever talk to anyone in absolutes unless they want to know what 2+2=

The OP of this thread is talking in absolutes, the advice he was given earlier in the other thread had absolutes, I never saw one piece of scientific evidence saying that the OP would be wrong. I still haven't seen any scientific evidence saying the OP is right. I have a pond next door that is not acting like it should be according to some on this site and I have my own pond acting exactly like what some on this site would think is normal.

When my fish were planted in October the DO reading was almost 10 according to the supplier.

Bill Cody, as I said, I temped his pond. He's at 40 but his temp is all through the water column except the very top foot. I've temped his at 14 feet, 12 feet, 5 feet, and bobbed that temp gauge right below the ice.

Ahh.. Sorry I couldn't help. My geo is hard lined from the well and discharges under the pond water level so no way to get air in my system even if I ran a 20 inch pipe! Well done. Should have had you design mine!

Edit:

If you don't mind telling me, how are you introducing air to the flow thru your geo so you can aerate it? Maybe something I can add. If I can get lots of bubbles out of my discharge flow it will keep open water and I can move my diffuser.

Additional info: When I designed mine, I set up a parallel circuit around my geo so I could use the same 300 feet of discharge pipe and provide 35 gpm directly to the pond from the well when pond water level gets low. Any suggestions you have on how to get air into both scenarios would be great!

You know, I really am trying to be nice and polite, but it's becoming very hard with little digs like this. You don't like what you saw here because I posted results that are contrary to some of the flame throwing I took? Tough. Go back and read the other thread and make sure you look at the parts where I told some of these guys what was going to happen ( in my case here in Louisiana) And it happened just like I said it would. Even after your buddy who fanned the flames came up with everything he could think of as to why my feeding tendencies would fail. And NOW WE SEE the results. Plain as day.
Let me go back and show you some of the remarks.

12/10/14

12/11/14

12/11/14

I really like this one with the condescending tone wanting proof and fact....which I have given him and what happened? STILL DISPUTES THE ACHIEVED RESULTS. An no, this isn't my first pond. This is not my first time fiddling with a pond.
The pond in my back yard is the first pond in my back yard. I should have mentioned something about that back when but didn't think it mattered.
12/11/14

Oh really? Ok well, I only have one thing to say about that. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Feb 23, 1:15 pm central.


But wait there's more. And then this.
12/11/14

I'm almost at a loss for words on the above. Did anyone say one pond in Louisiana would make paradigm shift? Is that anywhere on any thread I typed on? Additonally everyone knows I'm in Louisiana, and apparently knows what the climate is like here, which has now seemingly turned into a SAD EXCUSE while demonstrating the finer art of backpedaling after seeing the results, of my umm, " test mules." Everyone knew I was in Louisiana at the time of the above quoted comment, But Did that stop this??? Oh nooooooooo,,,,,,no no noooooo. Of course not.

12/14/14

Trust me when I tell you guys that I have nothing against anyone here. But this above quote has been completely and utterly demolished, obliterated beyond any type of salvation.



21/11/14
12/13/14

And I have done just that. Just like I said I would.
It's right before your very eyes. We don't see any sickly fish. We see healthy fish that have grown VASTLY, that's right, VASTLY, when some said that could not possibly happen, with references to pondmeisters and whatnot. Do not try to change it to " oh you're in Louisiana". Everyone knew that before hand. I don't want to see the backpeddling and I'm not even going to take it into account. I told you guys I was going to do something. And in the face of raging nay sayers and criticism, I carried it out like a Seal team mission.

I am going to say it one last time. Feed your Coppernose Bream. You are not going to kill them or adversely effect them. And yes, Absolutely 100% without a doubt, they will grow in the winter time. They will stop taking your pellets LONG BEFORE any harm comes to them.

T57, your reply reminds me of what I heard time and again at the PB Conference: it depends! I wish for more fertility and envy your situation, but if I were in your situation I'd wish for less fertility and envy my situation. The algae is always greener on the other guy's pond, I guess.

By the way, have you looked into Floating Biohaven Islands at all? Pricy, but they sound terrific for dealing with excess nutrient issues. If I eventually put in a brood pond packed with tilapia & freshwater prawns, I intend to use the Islands to keep things under control.