Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat how deep to put wooden pallets

My 2 acre pond is not full by all means but I do have water from one end to the other. I am getting my shipment of forage fish in mid February and I need to be ready. Some of you know I have tire tripods all over the pond in what will be 5 foot water at pool. They all have some water on them and some are already completely submerged in the deep end. That's ok for my deeper structure but now I have acquired 40 old wooden pallets I want to put along the banks for my forage fish to spawn and hide. Yall talked me out of the artificial Christmas trees. My question is how deep do they need to be?I need them to be in the waters edge for the new little fish coming but... as the pond fills later then they may be too deep!! I want to put out about 10 of these "piles" and sure as heck don't want to have to move them all later. Any suggestion and input greatly appreciated.I did by a very nice pedal boat for only $100 this weekend and have acess out on the water now. The water is deep enough I can take that boat from one end to the other without hitting bottom. I made me a little temporary walkway down to the water with pallets,plywood and roll roofing and moor the boat there. This will serve as a means to carry bait fish down to the pond in buckets if I have to.

Flame I was considering wooden pallets in shallow water awhile back but a few talked me out of it because they said pallets in shallow water would be worse than other things about hanging up lures.

Flame, the first yr I put in FH and for spawning area and hiding area I put in 4 reg pallets. I tied a gallon jug to each corner and secured them about 3' apart on a heavy rope stretched across one corner of the pond. The FH reproduced very well and the cheap gal milk jugs I used lasted that first yr. The next yr the pallets were water logged so I removed the gal jugs and I cut the heavy anchor rope on both ends and let all the pallets sink into about 3-4 ft of water. Now there all on the bottom, they are not much of a problem as far as snagging on. Don't know how useful they are but they ain't hurting anything. Now every yr I free float 2 or 3 pallets on the surface and replace the jugs each spring. Have been able to sustain a good population of BNM and FH with minimum restocking. I have a pretty heavy predator pond with SMB, WE, HSB and YP. Last yr I put in 10 adult Talapia and they reproduced well from mid June till mid Sept. Am going to add 100-150 Papershell Craws this spring. I hand feed almost every evening and the fish and I are all happy.

This is one way of doing it. I do not claim it to be the best way, only one way.

Set four concrete blocks on the pond floor. Level them by digging in the upper two. Place first pallet and secure with really heavy duty zip ties to the blocks. You can get these heavy duty zip ties from a heating/air conditioning place. They are 3-4' long, are really heavy duty, and are used for zip tie heat and air duct work. You could stake this pallet to the pond bottom to help secure it so it does not float.

Place the second pallet on the first and screw it in place with screws and a screw gun. 4-6 screws. Repeat until the top pallet is within two or three feet of the surface. Stack the pallets 6 or 8 high, depending on desired height and how deep you put the original blocks. Put 4-6 concrete blocks on top of the pallet stack to keep it from floating. Or alternately use stakes or earth anchors to keep them from floating. Stack rocks and/or gravel on the top pallet.

You can get a little more mileage of more underside area if you will disassemble one pallet and use the boards as spacers between the pallets. Or use scrap boards you have laying around as spacers between the pallets.

This will give underside area for your FHM all the while the pond is still filling. Once the pond is full, it will give small BG refuge from predators. It allows the fish to choose the depth they prefer depending on water temperature and predation. If small fish have a lot of bird predation, they will tend deeper. If predation from LMB, they will tend the shore line or shallower. Giving structure from top to bottom of pond gives the fish a lot of options for their comfort and safety.

Strictly for the benefit of the fish, I would run the structure completely to the top of the water. This also lets you see it to know where to fish because where small fish have refuge, large fish will hang around. Problem is, having a trashy looking pond may not go well with spouse or if you plan to use a boat on the water may not want the navigation hazard. Only you know if the fish are more important to you or other issues and considerations. If you are going to use a small boat and don't want the structure in the way, consider how low the pond may go from evaporation between rains (if a runoff pond) and how deep of draft any boat that will ever be in the pond. I ran my cedar tree tops all the way within a few inches of full pool. But my hard structure I left down a couple feet. If my paddle boat scratches over the tip of a cedar, no problem. But I did not want to be running into solid structures.

If you have lots of free pallets, I would do that to at least 4 or 5 places in the pond. If you can't get many pallets, then you might want to use some other method that does not use up so many pallets.

My opinion only, definitely not an expert. Your mileage may vary.

Here is a floating version. Pallets will float initially and in a while will sink when water logged. So if you want them to keep floating, use jugs or swimming pool noodles or foam insulation or something to keep them floating.

Notice on the first one (FHM Condo) I used multiple layers of boards with a space in between. FHM lay their eggs on the underside of things. They also are territorial and will protect a two or three square feet area. So the more underside you supply and the more layers or isolation you can provide, the more "nests" your structure can support.

floating pallets

Another version. Look at picture 007
Pallet condo picture 007 with flotation added

Consider staking the pallets to the shoreline with a rope to retrieve them when they begin to waterlog. I know of a few pondmeisters who like to do this.

I haven't heard anything negative about pallets in a pond, so it's probably not an issue, but they are heavily treated against moisture and bugs. I use pallets to build furniture and was told to use a full respiratory mask to sand them because of the potential carcinogens. Again, can't say I've ever seen this brought up before, so thought I'd throw it out there if anyone had any input on this.

While there are no predators in the pond, you will find FHM in all the water above the thermocline. We tend to see minnows around the edge of the pond and assume they stay there. I can't tell you for sure where they hang once there are lots of predators. May find out this next summer.

The way I know is that I went scuba diving a couple times the first summer when only BG, RES and FHM were in the pond. I could lay anywhere in the pond on or off the bottom (as long as I was above the thermocline - no aeration at that time so pond was stratified) and within a few minutes a school of FHM would find me. Once they found me 50 or a hundred of the little things would be pecking all over me on any exposed skin or scalp. feels kind of weird. Don't know if they like picking at the hairs, if I have salt on my skin, or what they liked but anywhere in the pond they would find me. If those little fish had a single tooth we would not get in the pond with them. Wife and daughter would hang bare feet off the dock and get a FHM foot massage.

The fry may tend to hug the shore line in shallow water. I know I see them there and not sure if they are also in deeper water. but the adults go everywhere in the pond. I went diving this fall and inspected some of the multi-layer wooden structures I had put in for the FHM. There were small fry all around them, but my eyes were not good enough to identify if the 1/4-1/2" long fry were FHM or BG. But small fry were using the structure as a refuge. This was in 4 or 5' of water, out in the middle of the pond (I left some shallower water in the middle of the pond, with deep all around).

So when we place structure for them, we tend to think shallow near shore. And they may only spawn shallow - can't tell you about that. But I can assure you, they use the whole pond, at least in absence of predators.

I had lots of other concrete and tree structure in the bottom of my pond and I'm satisfied they used a lot of it for spawning at least as the pond was still filling.

This may be true on the better "return" pallets. I can't say for sure. But on the cheap "one way" pallets, the kind that end up in the dumpster or thrown away after a single shipment, they are just plain wood. Our Pin Oaks in this area are used a lot to make one way pallets, because the wood dries out and splits so bad it is not much use for better quality lumber. But the pallet mfg's in the area just nail the rough sawn boards together. I'm sure there is not treatment on them.

Regarding the toxicity of wooden pallets ...Here are a few links of possible interest. I would never use pallets for anything unless I purchased them firsthand - the untreated variety.

http://www.pallettruth.com/

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-pr...afety-info.html

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/upcycled-wooden-pallets-green-158131


Obviously you're mileage may vary. I only know too much about pallets because my mate was gung ho on making all kinds of crap in the house from used pallets. It took some effort to get her to STOP that nonsense and use other wood and new untreated pallets. Some effort = dog house for a bit.

That first link is a hoot

Sounds like written by the plastic pallet industry advertising department.

They all three have some good information though. Thanks for the links.

We bought our untreated wooden pallets from Uline:

http://www.uline.com/Grp_147/Pallets?keywords=pallets


Two other links of possible interest:
http://www.nclnet.org/ncl_calls_on_fda_t..._transport_food

http://thepallettruth.org/


The one undeniable fact is that a percentage of the wooden pallets have been treated with nasty chemicals, known carcinogens. I almost didn't post any of this info because the OP first was "talked out of" putting the artificial Christmas trees in his pond, and now he has a source for pallets, and here's yet another caution flag to pallets. lol

I probably will not stock fhm except for this first year so I will attempt to cater to them this year and let the pallets be for cnbg and res fry to hide in for the future.I am going to start a feeding program from the very beginning. It is my understanding after introducing lmb to the pond after the first year they will probably wipe out all the fhm anyway.I think I will put all the pallet structures in just one area of the pond. That way I have a idea of location for fishing. I went out yesterday in my pedal boat and tied a duck decoy above everyone of my tire tripods for structure location later. Put them on a very short string so they will float directly above the tires. I now have about 20 decoys floating around. Looks nicer than plastic jugs and I bought them all at a flea market for $2 each.

While I'm not po-pooing the chemicals, I'd like to see some figures on the amount that will leach out per gallon of water.

I know cancer is becoming more and more prevalent, but depending on what is injested, durn near everything out there will cause a person harm - it just depends on the amount. Heck, even drinking too much water will kill ya. There's at least one herbicides/pesticide that getting one drop on your skin will kill ya.

For some common things, look here: http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/07/27/lethaldoses/

You guys can do the math. One acre of water, 12" deep is 325,851 gallons of water.

re: wooden pallets.

If you are concerned about fishing lures getting hung up on the pallets, here's what I'd do.

I'd tie 4-5-6 pallets together, to make a stack. Tie a rope to the bottom one. Once they start to float, pull them closer to shore so the bottom one is on the bottom of the pond. Continue to do that until they sink completely, or the pond is full. Once predators are in the pond, the FHM will stick really close to cover to hide.

If they sink completely, the rope will allow you to pull them out of the pond if you want to.

Have used many pallets for years with no issues. Use them at all depths to meet goals - they are like any structure - used to meet goals. See the archives for numerous examples.

Yes, few people will probably believe it, but a salt shaker full of table salt is significantly more toxic to a toddler than a salt shaker full of atrazine. I think it takes only something like a couple tablespoons of salt to kill a toddler. So maybe we should outlaw the chemical NaCL? Sodium Chloride.

I did not realize pallets had become such a trend ofr indoor furniture. I would be leery of that also. Even clean pallets that have had no spills on them may have set on a concrete floor where chemical spills did occur. But I'm with you esshup on worrying about what tiny amount might leach into the water. The chemicals we use all have a very short half life and natural bugs in the soil/water break them down pretty quickly. Most of the really long life chemicals have been taken off the market years ago. That is why we have to treat wood every year now where many years ago a single treatment with Termitox would last 5-10 years. I can't say if it is more environmentally friendly to treat something 10 times instead of one, but sometimes I question it. As you point out with your dilution example, by the time any leaching is diluted in the total gallons of water in a pond, spraying your lawn with herbicide/insecticide and the rain runoff would provide hundreds or thousands of times more chemical in runoff than a little leaching from the wood of a few pallets.

My opinion. Not an expert.

As long as you don't mind looking at whatever marker you are using, I think marking your cover is a really good idea.

I placed all my cover in my pond myself (with the help of some grandsons, but I knew where everything went). I thought I had a pretty good idea where everything was. I try fishing around it, and I miss where I think it was. I go scuba diving, and with the pond full it does not seem to be in the place I put it. I don't think 500 pound concrete structure and huge stumps held down by concrete pieces moved around on me. I got general ideas, but it is all fuzzy now.

Last summer I put several permanent boat moorings with very small floats on the ropes. This is tied to some of the larger structure pieces. This helped a bunch. Even with only a portion of them marked, I am much better able to estimate the other structure that lies between the markers. Not only can I moor up the boat to them, now I know where to fish around.

So marking the major structure is a good idea in my mind. As long as you or your spouse does not mind looking at the markers. When the pond fills and the top is smooth, nothing looks the same as it did while placing structure in an empty pond.

I have a friend who makes all sorts of cool things out of recycled wood and I started off just making lounge chairs for around the pond.

Soap and hot water. Eliminate guessing.




I remember a post a while ago that someone tossed some pallets in their pond and the FHM would have nothing to do with it.

When I buy Oranges, I only get the Sunkist Brand, because I know that a Dinosaur is not going to jump out and eat me up

There are a number of pallet companies around here. Esshup has heard about Terry. Across the street from Terry, the pallet company put's all their hardwood scraps outside and there is a huge FREE sign. There is a lot of nice stuff for a hobbyist, or if you want it for burning. They only make untreated hardwood pallets. There is a bunch out there every day. Saves them the cost of disposal.

Within about 20 miles of the area, I have seen roadside stands where they bundle up some stuff like this and sell it for a few bucks per bundle. Camping/hunting firewood, stuff like that.

Well I just got back in the house. Went ahead and stacked pallets 5 high. Put the stacks 5 feet from each other and put out a total of 5 stacks all in a row in what will be shallow water in the near future. The very edge of the pallets are touching the water now. Boy was that muddy down there. Remember we just had a 8 inch rain a few days ago!! I took your advise and screwed each pallet to the next one. Only thing I have left to do is place some concrete blocks on top. I will try to shoot you some photos later. I mentioned before I have marked all my structures with a floating duck decoy. I will do the same with these. Decoys look more pleasant than a plastic jug and they just might lure something in to land at the same time. They eat a lot less and do a lot less damage than real ducks. Though they don't cook up too good. Thanks for all your help

They will be pretty buoyant to begin with.

Be sure to either a. use enough weight or b. stake them down or c. all of the above.

You can drive 2-4 grade stakes in the pond bottom a foot deep up against the pallets then screw the stakes to the pallets. Any stake material. Even a sharpened 2x4 or 1x4.

Once they are waterlogged, they will stay there.

snrub, It sure sounds like we think a lot alike. Thanks for all the info. and support. Saw my wife sitting in a chair by the lake just staring at it. I could see her with a rod and reel in her hand taking life easy. We just can't wait. Weatherman says we may get over 2 inches rain again this Thursday. I will get out today and stake and weight the pallets down.I love working on this pond and am actually watching a true dream come true before my eyes!! Will be in the 70's here again today.

Glad it is all coming together for you.

Wife and I like to sit out on our dock and watch the sun set. We sure enjoy our pond.