Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding do I "need" fathead minnows?

Bill,

I want to reintroduce fatheads and get them spawning in the trophy perch and bluegill pond. Since the fish are already established (but no bass) how many pounds should I add this spring?

(As Bill knows I have had established fatheads before the last time I drained the pond and the perch and bluegill did not wipe them out. )

Why don't guys want to stock BNM? Availability?

I suppose if I really wanted some but I've got a good source for fatheads by the pound not far from me so...

I don't know of a commercial wholesale supplier that I can use here in Indiana for anything but FHM and GSH (minnow wise).

Scott, how did the GSF out hustle ALL of the other species? They only spawn annually and it seems to me that they wouldn't have thrived to that extent and to the total detriment of the other species.

CecilB1 - For your 1/2 ac pond with pellet trained YP as the main predator the amount of FHM to stock could be 3 to 4 lbs/0.6ac (600-800@2" adults)assuming you have ample spawning substrate. Each female FHM is expected to produce 500 eggs/season (some claim 4000 eggs/season) 300-400femles X 500eggs = 150000 to 200000 fry). That should be ample fry for supplemental forage. Ideally expect at least 8% survival (abt 12000, that is 50 lbs!) going into winter 2015. Even just 5% survival is 7500 abt 35 lbs.

BillD. Bluntnose with YP as the main predator is a great addition to FHM however the big drawback is availability.

what is the spawning rate comparison with the golden shiners verses the FHM? I was thinking of adding some GS to my pond but not sure how many or what survival rate is in a new pond with no lmb till June.
I was told Goldens might thrive in my pond. I'm looking for a pond where I might get maximum growth of lmb in the shortest time if possible.

For best G.shiner production the pond should have some natural shallow (0-1ft) vegetation which is their preferred spawning habitat. G.shiner spawn only once per year but have more eggs per female than FHM. Larger g.shiner can have 10,000 eggs per year compared to FHM 500 eggs and up to 2000-4000eggs in good conditions. For supplemental forage production try 10-30 lb/ac. Number and size of predator and amount of small fish refuge play big roles in the survival of minnow/shiner fry to adults.

Dave, their mouth gape allowed them to eat the YOY of the other fish. There were no predators in the pond that would eat GSF - the SMB weren't due to be stocked for a year when the GSF were noticed. By that time they had 2 years to reproduce and grow without a predator.

Without significant bass predation GSF are a real problem fish management wise. They do make decent food for bass.

Yes, but it appears to me that they would predate on their own young without any discrimination. Ya gotta figure that about 98% of the eggs ever laid, especially in a pond environment, and fry hatched don't make it.

Dave, I have no doubt that they did, but 3 of the 4 species added to the pond have a more fusiform shape than GSF, so I'm assuming that they were more of a primary target.

You guys have me confused. If GSF predate heavily on their own spawn, then does that mean a pond with GSF only will not eventually be full of stunted GSF?

Bill, to some people all GSF are stunted. They just don't reach the max size that bluegills do. 9 inches is a trophy. However, they more than make up for it with their fighting ability. They have an attitude and are generally not shy about biting. I have a forage pond that is about 50/50 with them and BG. I don't hesitate to trap and xfer them to my larger pond.

Hey Dave,

Trophy is in the eyes of the pondmeister. I stocked some PS in my pond. Can't wait to catch one of those 7 inch monsters!

Bill D., all unmanaged ponds will "stunt" eventually. A pond can only support a maximum weight of living organisms at any given time. For illustration purposes, say your pond can support 1000 pounds and holds 2, 500# fish that spawn....the spawn can't gain weight unless the parents lose weight, therefore, they all stunt. Each spawn creates more, smaller fish when a BOW is at it's maximum carrying capacity.

i want some but haven't located any close to me yet

fishmn - here is a distribution map for the BNM in SD. Check these streams or tributaries for these minnows. They readily enter baited fish traps especially pre and post spawn periods.
http://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/gap/fishes/upload/Bluntnose-Minnow-Map.pdf

Bill, I wish I could stock PS. Another one(of the many) is longear.

I know what you mean Dave. I stocked the PS because I remember catching them when I was a kid wandering the back waters of the Flat Rock River down in Indiana. Prettiest native fish I have ever seen. Longear would be a great addition! Dangit man! Now I need another pond!

Thank you much Bill Cody. I trap some of the streams but only find fatheads and shiners. I will have to look closer though.

Interestingly enough, they are native to my area.

USGS map

The lateral line of a bluntnose minnow runs from its head to tail, ending in a black spot that makes them distinguishable from the fathead minnow. Reference Wikipedia The bluntnose is very ubiquitous, and may be the most common freshwater fish in the Eastern U.S

At one time I may have actually had the opportunity to stock some BNM and did not know it. In this thread Ye old fish truck I got 40 or 50 minnows in what was supposed to be pure RES. They looked like FHM but something about them just looked different. That and they were bigger than any FHM I had ever seen in my pond. Bigger than the adult FHM in spawning colors. So I was afraid to put them in my pond, not knowing what they might be. That and since I already had tons of FHM already spawning I did not need to take the chance. But in retrospect, now I believe they might have been BNM.

I did put them in my son's pond and my daughter's pond, along with all the other hybrids and whatever I could not positively ID as RES. (Both their ponds already were going to be contaminated with trash fish anyway and so was not too worried if they were some other form of minnow).

Anyway, had I known BNM were good to have, were normal for my area, and could have ID'd them for sure, I would have put them in my forage pond. Now I would not mind having some.

Guys,

I had this post in another thread and moved it to this one. Better fit I think.....

A lot of you know I have new 1/4 acre pond in Northern Illinois.

Quick current status,

I have 6 SMB probably 10 inches by now and 1 LMB probably 8. The 75 BG 3 to 5 inches I stocked last spring pulled off a small spawn last fall. I stocked a 100 PS last fall 2 to 3 inch and 10 lbs FHM.

Now the question:

Last fall I also stocked 50 plus 5 to 7 inch YP. My hope is some will pull off a spawn this spring around April. I was thinking I would stock 10 or 15 pounds of FHM in March. Good idea? Bad idea?

Couple questions.

Are you planning on feeding fish feed pellets?

Did your original 10# of FHM spawn?

I stocked 30# FHM in 3 acres 2013, but they were put in in March and no bass till November of same year. I had FHM multiple spawn and gazillions of FHM fry. They became so thick in schools I started to wonder if FHM could overpopulate a pond. Still had a good population (but much thinner) going into this fall.

If your original 10# did not do the trick on a quarter acre and you do not have tons of FHM, I question what another batch would do for you. Some fish food might be a better investment. When the water warms back up in spring that is.

Soon after your SMB spawn (if they do), any FHM will be toast when the fingerling bass get after them.

Not an expert, just my opinion.

Snrub,

Sorry, I did a poor job of explaining.

In April 2014 I stocked around 300 FHM and they started spawning almost immediately. In June I stocked the BG. By the fall I had 1000s of FHM and the BG had also produced a small spawn. This is when the YP and PS were stocked. The bass were put in around September. Concerned that the existing FHM would not be enough forage to get the YP and the bass thru the winter, 10 lbs of FHM were added as a temporary “crutch” for this first winter. If you figure the 50+ YP could easily consume 5 lbs of FHM or more per month just by themselves, I am guessing I will not have many FHM left come March. My thought on stocking FHM in March is to insure the YP have enough forage to be in good condition for spawning. As FHM start spawning in relatively cold water, I am hoping there will be some leftover from the March stocking to get off a few spawns and take some pressure off the new YP spawn. I expect the FHM to disappear from the food chain.


Longer term…I expect a good spawn from the BG this spring. I am hoping the PS (if any survive predation this winter) will perhaps have a small spawn in the fall. Once I establish vegetation in the spring, I am hoping to find BNM and SFS to stock as additional, hopefully more sustainable forage than FHM.

The hatchery where I got the YP was not certain the YP were pellet trained. I will be feeding pellets to the SF and the CC when the water warms.

So the question is……. is stocking 10 or 15 lbs of FHM in March a good idea, unnecessary or is there a downside I am not seeing?

Bill D.