Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding do I "need" fathead minnows?

Some of yall were comparing the price of fhm versus feeding bagged food. If I am going to feed either by hand or use a auto feeder do I not even need fhm? Do you still recommend stocking them in the very beginning and then just use prepared later? Don't want to get too confused. I stay that way enough.

There are probably a ton of variables that can get you confused as to wether or not you need them, or it warrants them.

Simply put, you could stock 2 dozen FHM and give them enough time, will become tens of thousands, or millions? You cant get that kind of return anywhere else. Initial 5.00, and get enough feed for other fish that if you had to replace with pellets would be ... wow.

I think some info that others will need to give you an accurate answer are;
What is your stocking schedule?
What are you going to stock?

I think if I was starting again, I would go with FHM and BNM. I've read a few places BNM are also prolific and may be easier to sustain a polulation over time.

I am going to try to get BNM going next summer. Anybody see a downside?

Are you starting with a clean slate? If so, fatheads are simply a tool to give your forage base a nice bump in the beginning. Stocking them in established waters is basically a waste of time. They're eaten right away and are not usually given a chance to reproduce which is the fathead's greatest quality. They multiply quickly.

My understanding is they are kind of a "starter" fish. If you have LMB eventually the LMB YOY will wipe them out. So eventually they pretty much go away. But there is a time when you stock your first fingerling LMB that there will be a void in the food chain as the BG may not have produced enough young yet. That might be particularly true the closer the timing is between stocking BG and LMB. So the FHM offer the newly stocked LMB an easy to catch prey for their early growth and take pressure off the early BG reproduction.

Not an expert. That is just my understanding from the reading i have done. They are a cheap early source of protein that turns early pond resources into bass food.

Think of FHM like fatwood - great to get things going - but you wouldn't feed a fireplace with them - instant combustion.

Some FHM are fine in the beginning, but have your stocking strategy in place with other forage sources appropriate to your goals. Shiner species, minnow species, crayfish, shad, BG and RES...all are useful tools depending on your goals for the fishery. Start there, and we can help provide direction on a stocking plan for forage and predator species.

Cody or Travis can better elaborate on the bluntnose minnows, but they get bigger and are more elusive than fatheads, so, in theory, they’ll last longer than fatheads. They are far more suited to waters without apex predators, like either bass species. They flourish in waters where yellow perch are the goal species.

Spotfin shiners is another species to consider in this scenario.

That's good to know. YP are my fish of choice in my pond. Bass, BG and CC are put and take for me.

This conversation sounds familiar, Bill.

Yep!

Bill, if you expect LMB to be a put and take, better be durn sure you can "take" them all before they pull off a spawn, or make durn sure you only stock single sex (if you can actually do that). If not, you'll never be able to "take" them all. Same with BG.

Flame, making the choice between FHM and pellets will depend on your pocketbook, your schedule, and the fish that you stock.

It also depends on your goals for the pond, and how fast you want the fish to grow.

If no fatheads are planned (and no other small forage fish planned in their place), then here's what you should consider:
1) Your fish that you stock have to be feed trained.
2) You have to feed 'em by hand EVERY day, at the same time, and you should plan on feeding multiple times a day.
3) If you can't do #2, you better buy the best, most reliable feeder you can find - which to me means a Texas Hunter feeder.
4) You have to manage your pond the first year or two like an aquaculture facility - roughly 90% of the food the fish get will be in the form or fish pellets.
5) You'll really need to monitor the fish growth closely and adjust the amount of food according to growth that is seen.

If you stock fatheads or other small forage fish and let the population expand before stocking the predators then you don't *have to* feed pellets at all, again depending on your goals and how fast you want the fish to grow.

When the majority of us are talking about feeding fish pellets, we are talking about supplementally feeding the fish, not making the pellets the main food source in the pond.

Take my personal pond for example, and the LMB that are in the pond. I feed around 50# to 100# of AM600 per month when the fish are feeding well. I have a very hard time keeping a good population of Bluegills in the pond because the LMB eat a LOT of them. I can put 2,500 in the pond at 3"-4" and in a year there are few to be seen.

So, think of the FHM as the BG in a newly stocked pond. How much more food would I have to be feeding to make up for all those BG?

On the flip side, how many more BG would I need to have in the pond to feed the LMB if I wasn't feeding??

Thanks everyone. I am starting with a clean slate. This is a newly dug 2 acre pond. I am going to stock cnbg and a few res for starters. Was planning on fhm also. Probably wait till next year to stock my lmb. I will be feeding daily or as needed.

Sounds like a plan.

FHM are to get your fingerling bass growing fast or quickly to the 8"-10 size or the 1st bass spawn. Then the FHM disappear and another fish usually BG become the main forage fish. For this reason, Bob Lusk calls the BG the backbone of the fishery.

What is your pond temperature during the hottest weeks/months of the year?

If your pond is spring fed and or the hottest air temperature weather has your pond temperature 77 or lower you may consider stocking some trout.

Your bass will love you for it. They prefer the smooth, streamlined not spiny trout over spiny bluegills. My bass devour trout. Been working on some HD video from GoPro (8' visibility) of my bass immediately moving in to the trout, sometimes nudging it, and then just sucking them in with that vacuum largemouth open action!

May be just another option for you to consider as forage fish. If your water temps get too warm you can always fish them out and enjoy a tasty fish filet.

I like the idea of fatheads. They are highly prolific and, when small, also help jump start the BG.

I think it's an investment that is too cheap to ignore.

Thanks everyone, I will go with about 30 lbs. of fhm. Want my new bass to come be fat and happy!!

30 lbs of FHM into 2 acres of fertile water could result in too many FHM young over eating the food source where they are too crowded and do not grow well (stunted). For FHM farm production they suggest a maximum of 7 lbs breeder FHM per ac if pond has fertilization or feeding of fine or ground feed. Those 7 lbs of FHM in good food conditions without predation can this spring & summer easily produce 500 lbs of FHM per acre. If the pond is not fertile then expect 100-200 lb/ac.

Consider this: reduce FHM by dividing the 30 lb FHM in half to 12-14 lbs and then use the remainder money to add 16-20 lbs of golden shiners. This diversifies your forage food base. The shiners will serve as continued forage with the BG as the bass gradually eliminate the FHM. Some breeder GSH may even survive fairly long term in the pond.

Flame, my 3.5 acre pond was stocked when pond water level was approximately 1.5 acres. It was recommended to me, and stocked, in late November. We stocked 90 lbs of Fatheads to my LMB pond. Along with 3200 cnbg and 1000 res along with 300 TFS. With CB jumpers to be stocked this June. Stocked by Overtons and was later told I could add more FHM if I wanted. If comparing these recommendations, along with adjusting for pond size of 2 acres to 3.5 acres. I would think u could add more than 30 lbs of fhm if u so desire. And I am also feeding 1 sec per late afternoon with a Texas Hunter. Hope this helps

I think the difference between Bill's recommendations to Flame and Overtons to TGW1 is that in TGW1's pond had CNBG and RES stocked at the same time as the FHM. In that pond there would be predation from those fish on the YOY FHM. No predators in Flames pond.

Bill C., is that a safe assumption?

Not only are FHM an incredible early forage fish, they have been just as enjoyable as all my other fish. They are certainly the most visible of all fish. I stocked mine the same time as my RES and HBG, floated 15 pallets along the shore, and let them "get down to business." Reproduction was staggering. I could not tell any decline in population even after adding my top predators, WE and SMB. Additionally, most HBG are around 10", so I know they're preying on them as well. However, I did add 10 lbs golden shiners recently to prepare for their ultimate demise, which I've been assured will come. If you're like me, you'll probably only have a new pond once, so I really don't think you can go wrong w/an enormous initial forage base of fatheads.

FWIW That was my take as well. I followed the Bill C. method last spring with my new 1/4 acre. I only stocked about 300 FHM in April and nothing else. They were spawning everywhere by the time I stocked 75 BG 3 to 5 inch in June. Even with the BG, by end of September I had thousands and thousands of FHM.

This discussion reminds me of the Bob Lusk Stocking Strategy article in the Sept/Oct issue of PBM. The deep pocket guy versus the guy with a small budget willing to be a little patient. In this case, you can get thousands of FHM cheap if you are a little patient.

BG and RES will prey on FHM fry. The amount of predation is not well documented. Hatcheries are always eager to sell extra FHM.

I have one client that did the small budget stocking thing.

Unfortunately the fly in the ointment was a few GSF in the pond that he didn't know about. After 2 years of letting the FHM, GHS, RES and YP grow and maybe reproduce the only fish that were seen was a few FHM, a few of the adult GSH and the stocked RES/YP. Oh yeah, 1,000's of GSF...............