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Joined: Jul 2002
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Hey, I just found a great web site everybody might be interested in. It is just like Managing Michigan Ponds for Sport Fishing. In the acknowledgments it says " Much of the information is based on MMPSF..." It can't be printed so just read it on your cpu. http://www.uwex.edu/ces/pubs/pdf/G3693.PDF
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WOW! What a weekend. I never thought that pumping out that water would be so much work. I got the pond pumped down so that there was about only a foot of water in pool 3 feet wide by 50 feet long. It took about 48 hours of pumping total, we started on Thursday night and stoped Sunday night,with a few shut down times. Had to refuel every 2 1/2 hours so we didn't get much sleep. Discovered one really good spring and other smaller ones that just seemed to be seeping in water. We were able to remove 8 bass that were all in the 3lb class and 3-4 that were about 8-12 inches. Saw more that were from 2 inch(75-100?) to about 6 inches(10-?). On Thursday we caught 34 bluegills that were keeper size(7-9") and saw very few after the water was down, maybe 10+?. The small 'gills(less than 3") were everywhere! I would take a guess at 1000, just a guess. I was able to snag out the only 2 pike that we saw, they were both about 22" long. Had to snag them because the fish didn't want to bite after the water got very low. Crappie were still in the pond but I think that they were not as fat as when they were put in a year ago. Also caught(snaged) out some small fish that looked like bluegills but had a huge mouth, not rock bass, maybe those green sunfish. Nothing that was stocked in there that looked like that. Holy cow, you wouldn't belive the crawfish! There were many hundreds of them in the bottom of the pond. When the water got lower they were just everywhere. I thought that the bass would HOG UP on them. I was upset that we couldn't get more of the fish out and taken to another pond but the sides of the pond out from shore were to slippery and to mucky. I tried to get out with a boat but the sides were to steep after about 10 yards out. Would have at least been able to get a more accurite fish count. Another thing that surprised me was that there are no rooted weeds in there. Muskgrass grows on the top at the edges but not so much that it causes problems. Some stuff on the bottom of the pond(12ft. deep) looked like weeds but ones that have been dead for a while, brown sort of leafy. I am going to have to poision the remaning 'gills out with rotenone but can't get it at my local mill. Where can I order it in Michigan? The fish might die on there own 'cause the don't have much water and it is pretty muddy after the rain we got and with the spring running in water. I think I am going to stock regular 'gills and bass and manage them so I don't have the problems of having to do the hybrid renovation in a few years. Lots of work to do yet on the dam spillway and clearing trees. I will post my pictures as soon as I get them and figure out how to post them on this site. Not sure how to get them on the web first. Any questions,comments,suggestions, or input at all are welcome. Thank you to all that have helped so far. Ta Ta
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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jawbone - You can not get rotenone unless you have the appropriate pesticide license or know someone who does. They cannot legeally sell it any other way. Fish seem to get panicy & won't bite well once the water starts lowering. They must sense something is wrong. Crayfish must have been hiding where the fish couldn't find them. Otherwise bass would have had them really thinned out. Small bgill like fish were very likely green sunfish they are everywhere esp in water connected to streams or open to friendly visitors. Most people can not tell them from bgill.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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How should I kill the fish then? Thanks for your reply.
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Eric, As luck would have it, I mailed out my $3.50 for the MMP bulletin about two days prior to your post. The other day I got a letter with the standard reply most parents get when their kids are at college.........send more money!! I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. Jawbone, In your post about drawing off the pond, there was no mention of turtles. I'm curious, did you have any turtles in the pond?? The other day I was walking the edge of my pond and noticed a snapping turtle (dinner plate size ) submerged about 2 feet from shore. As I stood there thinking up turtle recipes, an 8" bass swam within, what appeared to be, 5-6" of his head! Could I possibly have bass that possess a suicide gene?? Russ
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jawbone - Two basic options here, hire someone to buy rotonone for you or hire the job to be done by a licensed applicator, or completely drain the pond dry. Pump out almost all the water and it will not cost much to kill off a puddle.
You may hear about adding chlorine to kill out the pond. A lot of fish hatcheries used to do that to kill their ponds. In fact it was recommended in Fish Hatchery Management by Dept of Interior. DO NOT DO THAT if you're are going to eat the fish. The Chlorine free radicals in surface waters form trihalomethane complexes which include cholororm a suspected carcinogen. Trihalomethanes are stable in the environment and bioaccumulate which means they build up in fish. These chemicals are mutigens and carcinogens. Stick with rotonone or completely drain the pond down into a small sump area.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Russ, yes there where turtles in the pond. Two snappers, pretty good size, and I saw one painter.
Bill,I did drain it down to allmost a puddle but the springs keep filling it up. I may have to pump again depending on the cost to kill at the current water level as to being drained more.
Anybody know of who to contact in Michigan around Hastings to spray for me or to pay to buy the rotenone?
Once again, thank you all for your help.
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Cecil, the crows never stand a chance here Fire Ants beat them to it!
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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jawbone - For rotenone, try your county game warden for advise or the MSU extension service for names of people w/ the permit for rotenone. You want someone close by so travel time does not make it cost more.
Edited Note: Oh Christ!, jawbone, the MMP booklet says you need a permit from the DNR to control unwanted fish populations. See chapter 14. They also have lists of certified aquatic pesticide applicators. Good Luck.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Jawbone,
How's the pond renovation project going?
Russ
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It's going. I have run into some problems that don't let me work on the pond at this time. It is driving me crazy not working on it. I did stop by it the other day and it is filling with water faster than I expected. I am working on getting my pictures on my web site, but like every thing else it's not working right. As soon as I do get them on I will give the address so everyone can see them. Got to go, bye.
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Jawbone,
Great pictures! Looks like you needed a 50ft seine net in that last photo.
gw
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Jawbone: WOW! You've sure done a lot of work. Will the sides slipping in cause any problems such as making the pond shallower? Were you able to remove all the remaining fish b/4 it started refilling? Will it fill up enough b/4 ice up to allow you to start restocking this fall or are you just going to wait until spring? Great job and great pictures. Dan
Mistakes are proof that you are trying.
Dan
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Jawbone,
Another option would be to allow the pond to freeze up this winter if the springs don't bring the water level up very much. This should kill the fish off.
What size is this pond?
Bill Cody --- has anyone ever considered using any of the chemicals used for weed control or parasites but at a high enough level to cause mortality? What about using a lot of salt in the pool which will be diluted when the pond fills up again? You can get 50 lb bags at feed supplies relatively cheap. The species Jawbone is talking about can only tolerate a salinty up to a certain level.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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jawbone's Fish Kill: I doubt that salt will kill the fish when springs are seeping into the pond....BUT it may work depending on how much water in in the final puddle. May take lots of salt? Some fish will probably seek refuge in the incoming water that will dilute the affects of salt or any other chemical including rotenone. If I were killing the pond for him I wouldn't guarantee my efforts with those incoming springs. Problems with that one. Instead of salt maybe hydrated lime (quick lime/calcium hydroxide) pretty toxic in high concentrations; raises the pH. Need to know the alkalinity and water volume to determine amount to apply.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Jawbone,
Thanks for the pictures!! I'm sure you've told us but could you give us the dimensions of your pond.
Russ
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Thanks guys, the pond is just about 100 yards long and 35 yards wide with the deepest part being 12 feet, with much of it at 11-12 deep.
The pond is filling up pretty fast, it's over the structures now. Freezing out this winter might not happen.
The fish that were left I think might die. I should say some of the fish are still alive and I see lots of fingerling fish still.
I thank all of you for your interest and help and support in the pond. What a great site!
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Joined: Apr 2002
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jawbone - Saw your pond pictures. Since you have a stream running into your pond, it would probably be pretty useless to kill it off. Some trash fish would get back in via the stream. My guess and experience is that as fast as the pond is refilling all the fish in the low pool will survive. You won't lose many over winter unless you have a very severe winter with lots of extended snow cover (10-14 weeks). Restock in the spring and manage for what you want to achieve. A strong bass population will do a prety good job of keeping the trash fish in control.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill Cody, check your private message, thanks.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Jawbone,
I private messaged you about this, but will post it here also. Where did you find the book locally? I live in Caledonia and would like to pick one up too.
Thanks.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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You can get the Managing Michigan ponds from any MSU extension office for abt $4.00.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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You can get it at the Barry County court house. The building accross from the old court house on the bottom floor. You will see the MSU signs. Sorry for the delay.
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JAWBONE I live near woodland MI and have been looking for some property to dig a pond and build a new house. Did you have yours dug and who's a good one to get to dig a pond in this area?
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There are a few people that dig ponds around here. The one that I was talking about was dug years ago when I was a boy, don't know who dug it. Just pick someone that will dig it the way you want, some won't go very deep,and make sure you go look at other ponds that they have dug and talk to the pond owners. I know that if I had a new pond dug and someone wanted to see it for a reference of the digger I would be glad to show it off. I have talked to a few guys that dig ponds and they are pretty smart, but the guys at Pond Boss know twice as much about how ponds should really be handled and taken care of. Good luck!
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