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#389075 10/06/14 03:43 PM
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My builder dropped off his dozer today in the pouring rain. He will start clearing out some area to measure elevations tomorrow. He has a cat D4 with a 10 ft blade. He says he wants to work by the hour after he clears to see what we have to work with. How much is a good price per hour for a dozer that size? He has built about 20 ponds up to about 5 acres. Mine will be about 2 acres and only 12 ft deep. The trees are all pine saplings wild in a thicket only about 3 inches wide.We are on a red clay hill and he will have 25 acres to push and pile debree and push dirt out of the way. NO HAULING or BURNING!!! If all goes pretty well how many days do you think it should take him with that D4 dozer??


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A D4 with a 10' blade? Must be a LGP for that small of tractor to have that size blade. If you have a lot of dirt to move, he is going to be there a long time. Also how old is it? Cat has made D4s since the early 50s. A new hydrostat D4 is a whole nuther machine than a cable operated steering clutch machine. Not all D4s were created equal.

For comparison, I used a 2006 D6N diff steer along with a 65E rubber track tractor and 12 yard forced ejection scraper and it took us plenty long to do a 3 acre pond. But we did have to move a lot of dirt.

If you have a big ravine and mostly pushing up a dam might be ok. I guess back in the old days, they built dams and stripped coal with mules and a slip, so if the operator is tough and you have plenty of time, it can be done. Maybe he is bringing in more machinery after the clearing part.

Last edited by snrub; 10/06/14 07:38 PM.

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It is a fairly new D4C LGP. I don't know anything about dozers. But I took a picture of it and got those numbers off my photo. He plans to do the whole job with this one piece equiptment.I am on a steep hill with a revine to work with. He only lives 6 miles down the road from me so no transportation problems for him. I took some photos of the property already before he starts in the morning and will continue until complete. Is $50-$80 an hour around what I should pay? We visited for 2 hours going over my plans and what was expected of each other.I believe we are on the same page and am looking forward to getting started.


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Having a ravine to work with so there is not so many cubic yards of dirt need to be moved, and that being a pretty new machine, it sounds better than what I envisioned.

I have not hired a dozer in a long time (we own ours) so I can't help you there.

Good luck and I know it is an exciting time for you. He having built numerous ponds and up to 20 acres sounds like he should be fine.


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Flame, I paid $100/hr for a dozer and $150/hr for an excavator. You might be able to do it for less with a smaller dozer. I don't know the sizes but I'd estimate at least a 10 ft blade on the dozer and 20+ft boom on the excavator. We also had a smaller dozer for finish work. We spent 8 days excavating and building (and re-coring) the dam. We drained the old pond, cleared some fairly large trees and added about 1 acre of new pond with an average of about 9 - 10 ft depth.

It will probably take longer than you've estimated so be prepared. Be sure your contactor shoots grade so he gets it right the first time. Don't want him coming back to re-grade the spillway if you can avoid it.

Last edited by WingNuts; 10/06/14 09:27 PM.

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Thanks everyone, He has a laser and a standard setup for shooting grade. He has done a lot of small dirtwork for me before and cleared a 25 acre tract for my son.He owns all his equipt. and owns his own dirtpit. I have known him for 30 years. Wish me luck!!


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Flame, with the dozer being a LGP, what is he going to use to compact the core trench in the dam?


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I don't know. Is that dozer not near heavy enough or would it just take him longer? He got all the trees laid down today and it looks like I might be closer to 1 and 1/2 acres instead of 2 acres. I am at 300 ft long and 220 ft wide. Did not get to check elevations today. Will be doing that tomorrow.


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You need something that will compact the soil. LGP tracks mean Low Ground Pressure, they are designed to minimize the PSI of the machine on the ground, completely opposite of what you need to compact the soil. They are put on equipment so that it won't sink into soft ground. Like a boat floating on water.


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oops!! I may be in trouble.Pretty sure this is all he will be using.


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Normally a sheepsfoot roller recommended. Look at the link below. It goes down to a normal D5. Your D4 LGP will be lower than that. Compare it to a sheepsfoot. Not even close.

http://extension.missouri.edu/webster/pond-seal.aspx

PS. found a D4 LGP cited.. 4.2 psi

Last edited by DNickolaus; 10/08/14 06:10 AM.
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DNiclolaus - that is a great page of information about soil compaction. Thanks from all of us.

Flame - without good soil compaction expect the pond to leak - it is almost a given and guarantee. Be prepared. Very best compaction is with a vibratory sheepsfoot. You would be wise to have him rent one, at bare minimum a double barrel sheepsfoot.

Ponds are built the fastest with two workers; one digging and spreading, the other compacting.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/08/14 10:07 AM.

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Wow, I need to get Mr. Heffner over with his girls to seal my dam up! All those high heels should do the trick. It would be a shame to have to watch the compaction process ;-).

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Sounds like a great price for dozer work. I paid $250/hr for a guy on a big D8.
But when he was pushing dirt, it was in the neighborhood of ten times as much as the guy on the smaller Deere dozer.


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Flame,
In June / July this summer, I paid $75.00hr for an excavator and $85.00hr for a D4 cat dozer. The dump truck was $55.00hr. Good luck!


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I feel everyone here is trying to be sure you consider having the pond bottom compacted with a sheep-foot roller. I will tell you when I had mine built it took me about two + months of every day running over the bottom and side of my pond to get it compacted (Tractor tires) and I am just lucky it did not leak. Good clay, with several lifts, compacted with each lift, will give you the best chance to not have a leak, IMHO and as a novice pond guy.

Without a quality dam core you will have trouble most likely sooner than later. A quality built pond is a great time and enjoyable. A leaking pond for many reasons is a hole with water in it sometimes!, a headache, and offers many challenges.

It could be a big headache if you fill and find a leak, then have to drain, dry out and rework the pond. Many here say over and over do it right the first time. There are many reasons the pros here can tell you about why and how to do it right, it will be cheaper in the long run.

Good luck and post us a lot of pictures, if you can. It is a real treat to watch from beginning to the end. You will be glad you have the pics in the future anyway!!


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Originally Posted By: mpc


Good luck and post us a lot of pictures, if you can. It is a real treat to watch from beginning to the end. You will be glad you have the pics in the future anyway!!


I second his suggestion Flame, and would suggest if you have the time and inclination to keep this thread going and make it a log of your progress, success and travails. Pictures always make it more interesting. Others can then learn from and appreciate your efforts. I did this when redoing my son's old farm pond and glad I did. Wish I had done it on my daughters pond. Refurbishing a 50 year old pond

Last edited by snrub; 10/13/14 08:36 PM.

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