Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Texas 1/2 Pond, 8 Feet deep Aerator options

I have taken the liberty of continuing this thread by focusing on problems of continuing Texas extreme drought and hot weather problems:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=386780#Post386780

Aeration advice on the forum comes from well intentioned folks about the vagaries of drought and hot water in Texas farm ponds.
The first response to the question raised was:
“1/4 HP compressor with a single Air Station in the center of your pond will do the trick!”

I was very pleased to find Todd Overton’s timely response:





Many of the PB board members know Todd, but for others that do not, Todd Overton is a TAMU graduate fisheriess biologist and owner of Overton Fisheries located in BuffaloTexas. I have know Todd for over 10 years and in my primary fisheries consultant.

Based on more than 10 years experience managing Texas Farm ponds, I believe that all options should be considered before advice be given by well intentioned PB aeration experts and that advice be given with consideration of the challenges Texans have in managing pond under extreme drought and hot weather conditions.

I rely on our Fisheries Consultant for advice, but will share my experience:

Bottom Diffuser system:

July 2007
I had a massive fish kill depending on a DIY bottom diffuser system in a N.E. Texas 2 acre pond.
I take responsibility of this “mistake” by pushing the biomass limits during low water/hot Texas summer.


Surface Aeration system:

May 2011
Had a devastating fish kill, depending upon an up-graded “state of art” Vertex bottom diffuser system, due to record breaking Texas drought, record temps and low water conditions.


Our Fisheries Consultant recommended 1hp Kasco surface aerator in mid-lake 8ft water at full pool and maintain Vertex bottom diffuser system in deeper portion. This system continues in place with 24/7 operation, one system running during daylight hours and other at night, depending upon weather conditions. Both system can run simultaneous when emergencies arise.

Photo below shows simultaneous operation:



This is Highflyer’s Kasco 12 volt ¼ hp surface aerator - I pay close attention to what my buddy Brian achieves in his solar/aeration project - I have one of these on order:
Thanks Brian!



As mentioned above, I have an order in to my supplier for a Kasco 12 volt ¼ hp surface aerator for installation in our sediment pond - as you can see it needs a lot of help.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/texoma/DugoutPond09-06-14001_zps825cf320.jpg

George

George, sorry to hear about the fishkills. How many other Texas pondbossers lost fish because they relied solely on bottom aeration? Glad to hear that Todd Overton has come up with a remedy that works for your situation.

That sun sure felt good up here today.

Tony,

From my observation, bottom diffused aeration is a tool for a specific job. What I see is if you rely on bottom aeration for O2 and you are pushing the biomass limits in Texas and there is a drought, you are ripe for trouble. Most pond owners do not push the limits on anything. So for them, the only problems come when nature get out of whack. And then, it is self correcting.

I like "playing" with my brood ponds. I am pushing the limits and I know it. if I have a problem, it will be because I caused it. I won't like it, but there will only be one person to blame.

I can say all of this because of what I have learned here, on PondBoss, and I thank everyone who has help teach me. George is on that list, near the top.

PS, I enjoyed the rain, we just did not get enough this time.

Tony, what is the saying I have often heard quoted on PB – something like you are not a
pondmeister until you have killed a million fish – something like that?

I don’t know anyone that has struggled with managing their ponds the past 4 or 5 years of record setting drought and high temps in Texas have “relied solely on bottom aeration”, but Todd in his post above states " I have clients who have had plankton crashes resulting in fish kills, even with diffused aeration in place".
You can’t fool mother nature ...our 1/4 acre that is deeper than main pond has no aeration and never a fish kill that we are aware of.
I was fortunate to discover surface aeration and installed, whereas others may have been better informed.

My main point was to give a heads-up to Texas pondsters that bottom diffuser aeration systems are ineffective for adding O2 in shallow ponds – especially when drought conditions cause the water level to fluctuate - surface aeration is effective in adding O2 in shallow ponds
I believe that Todd explains this subject much better than I.

Hey, we got your cold front today – high of 87.3 in Plano.
George

http://www.kascomarine.com/products/aerators/12v-emergency-aerator/

George, I guess what I was wondering after reading your post, was how prevalent surface aeration is in Texas ponds. Brian touched on something that I was thinking also, the issue of biomass being an extremely important variable in the decision to implement surface aeration in conjunction with bottom aeration.

I know very little about aeration, and even less about Texas ponds, but I can't help but wonder what percentage of shallow Texas ponds exist in a very similar fashion to Hoosier ponds......that being they are not revved up, jacked up, or souped up....they are just average, with average biomass for their size.

This is PondBoss after all....many of those on here thrive on pushing the envelope, and seeing how far they can go. But speaking about the shallow ponds in my area, something I do know a little about, the vast majority are not existing on the ragged edge, and when summer fishkills do occur, it's often due to something the pond owner did, and probably wouldn't have occurred had they not intervened, or had they employed bottom aeration.

That was the reason I asked what I did. I was curious how many Texans utilized surface aeration in addition to bottom aeration. If every shallow Texas pond is managed in a maxxed out fashion, then I can certainly see where one would benefit from its use. But what about shallow ponds that are not pushed that hard? Do they suffer fishkills with just bottom aeration in use?

Tony, your questions:
“how prevalent surface aeration is in Texas ponds”
None that I know of, but I am not privy to Todds’s business - I suspect more after folks knows about what Brian is doing with his solar surface aeration system.

“.how many Texans utilized surface aeration in addition to bottom aeration.”
I am the first that I know about but others soon to follow if conditions merit, I assume.

“Do they suffer fishkills with just bottom aeration in use?”
Dave Davidson, Cisco and others in more drought prone areas can address this question.

Tony, I missed an important comment in your last post that is important for aeration experts giving advice, not familiar with Texas ponds:
“biomass being an extremely important variable in the decision to implement surface aeration in conjunction with bottom aeration.”

IMO, Calculations of water volume by aeration vendors to design bottom diffuser systems are are meaningless in drought ridden Texas.

This year has been a good year compared to past years.
Late spring/early summer, based on full pool level, our 2 acre pond with <8 ft average depth, was down some 3-4 ft, making our bottom diffuser system useless for providing O2. Saturday our pond level was ~1 ft down from full pool - bottom diffusers were effective in deeper water near dam.

I push the envelope and originally installed our bottom diffuser system under the premise that I could “double the carrying capacity” of our pond.
This is appropriate advice for ponds outside of drought ridden areas having stable water conditions, but sometimes reckless advice from the “experts” when pond water volume is the extreme variable to consider in Texas private waters.

My original post was to share my experience with Texas pond owners to carefully examine options when aeration vendors design aeration systems for Texas ponds.

Most on the forum know that any posts I make on the PB forum are based on experience – success and failure.
It has been fun and now have a new project to restore our small sediment pond to good condition with a solar system 12 volt 1/4 hp surface aerator.

Photo below is our small sediment pond, measured 7 foot deep – one foot below full pool which is very seldom reached.
Present plan is install Kasco 12 volt 1/4 hp “emergency surface aerator, powered by one solar panel, one 12 volt deep cycle battery and a timer.
Target date spring 2015 with all the help I can beg, borrow or steal.....

Thanks Brian (highflyer) for letting me tag along watching your successful pond program.
George Glazener

George is correct - it is wise to have surface aeration as a back up to bottom diffused aeration when a pond is pushing the envelope during drought, heavy stocking, fertilizing, etc.... Yes, there have been fishkills with bottom diffused aeration when severe bloom crashes occur. Not much can keep up with that kind of oxygen demand. My statement as far as a 1/4 HP compressor "doing the trick" was appropriate for a small pond when sizing a bottom diffused aeration system. There is an oxygen transfer chart that I can provide to anyone who is interested on our disc diffusers, but the majority of oxygen transfer is at the surface of the water where the vertical movement from the bubbles exposes the oxygen deficient water to the atmosphere. The shallower the pond, the less water is moved and the less efficient bottom diffused aeration is... when I size a pond for aeration in drought conditions I do consider maximum volume at minimum diffuser depth to ensure that the pond owner is covered at max and minimum. This usually is not at a huge expense ~ unless it is a severe difference (full pool 12 acres down to 3 acres) which in that case we are really only trying to salvage the last 3 acres.... I have a lot of experience properly sizing aeration for ponds in Texas - my dealer network in Texas is quite extensive and I have worked with numerous private pond and ranch owners through these drought stricken years.
For what it is worth, George, my degree is also in fisheries management.

Sue, I am a well aware of your credentials and highly respected reputation, but we are on the opposite side of the fence....
You are a seller of a product and I am a knowledgeable consumer.
I have to look at options, considering a specific need.

I follow the advice of my Fisheries Consultant, Todd Overton, who IIRC is in your network of dealers.
I cannot speak for him, but his recommendation to me for my small shallow pond was for surface aeration.
Very best regards,
George

I never disagreed with you and I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence. I think we both want what is best for the pond owner! I would never EVER sell something to someone that I didn't think was best for their situation. Yes, Todd has been a Vertex dealer for a very long time ~ I am glad you have a top notch fisheries consultant.

OK, we got recommendations for aeration for small shallow Texas ponds.
One for a bottom diffuser system from a Vertex vendor and another recommendation for a surface aerator from a Kasco vendor, so all is good. That is exactly the options that I was looking for.

My decision for our small shallow pond is for a 12 volt 1/4 hp Kasco surface aerator.
I will reactivate this thread for progress as project is implemented.
Thanks for everyone's input.
George

Aeration, like almost everything pond related comes down to "It all depends".

The SOTR and SAE oxygen table listed above looks great for information, but when you read the text of the "report" it gets very muddy and says that one type aeration system may be all but useless over others in any given situation.

Paddle wheels do a great job in commercial production ponds where fishing isn't much of a concern, ponds are shallow (under 8' deep) and where bottoms are smooth and unobstructed. Larger paddle wheels that spin fast, using 2-3" angle iron welded to a round barrel, are downright deadly if a person gets too close...that is why they are used nearly exclusively in densely stocked, secured, fish farming settings.

Surface agitators also do a great job, but again, are primarily used in fish farm settings because the energy costs are usually pretty high to operate, the ropes needed to keep them in place are an obstruction to fishing, and again, they do the best job in shallow, smooth bottom ponds.

Bottom diffused membrane diffusers may not have the "SAE rating", but what is not said is if the oxygen transfer is from the air bubbles created in the bubble column, or does it include the water volume lifted that transfers the O2 at the air/water interface? I suspect it only shows actual O2 transfer from the bubble column. A bottom diffuser needs depth to do the best job and to create the most water movement.

Bottom diffusers will not do a great job at all in a shallow, smooth bottom pond, just as paddle wheels and agitators don't do great in a deeper pond, or one with an uneven, multi-depth, structured bottom.

If the mooring and aesthetics of a surface agitator are not an issue, and you have more than 8' of depth, plus push bio-mass limits, combining agitation and bottom diffusion is a great way to go......it all depends.

Title of this thread is about options...
Options - "it all depends".....same thing.....right!