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My friend has a pond which he will be using for trout, smallmouth and walleye. He wants to start a forage base. His water never gets over 59 degrees. What type of minnow would spawn in such a pond and make good forage for these types of fish.


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None that I can think of that fit all the criteria.

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YOY to age 2 YP could help serve as forage base, and maybe PS. I would also employ a pellet program to help feed the trout and SMB. Get pellet trained SMB, or cage/tank them and train them yourself.


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Neither the WE or SMB will show desirable growth rates if water temps never get over 59 degrees. The SMB will not spawn with any success nor will any other Centrarchid, except possibly crappies. How large is the pond? There may be other forage options available. As TJ said, pellet feeding is a good idea regardless...

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could you give us more information about the pond.?? is this a river flowing out of a glacier and never gets sun light??

I can understand that a pond doesnt get much light because of the north sides of hills and tall trees.

what sorts of bait fish live in other local ponds or rivers?

Are there suckers or white fish that may be suiteable. but they both do get large in short periods of time. but the YOY should be forage for mature predators.


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Pond is fed by an Artesian well at 60 gpm. The pond is roughly 5 to 6 foot average depth and the overflow goes out to a drainage to another neighbors pond. Pond is about .10 acres. Pretty neat set up, the Artesian is masked by having it spew its water into a neat little creek he made that's about 4 feet wide and 70 feet long.

The water is 51.5 degrees at the head, 52 degrees entering the pond, and during the worst heat wave we've had, it got to 58 degrees in the shallows.

I have another neighbor, who get this, went down 4 feet and hit an artesian, the head temperature is 45 degrees! This neighbors is only 200 yards from the pond of speaking of right now and I temped both heads with the same thermometer. I never thought it was physically possible to have such cold water well temps in lower MI as 45 degrees.


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Originally Posted By: timshufflin
Pond is fed by an Artesian well at 60 gpm. The pond is roughly 5 to 6 foot average depth and the overflow goes out to a drainage to another neighbors pond. Pond is about .10 acres. Pretty neat set up, the Artesian is masked by having it spew its water into a neat little creek he made that's about 4 feet wide and 70 feet long.

The water is 51.5 degrees at the head, 52 degrees entering the pond, and during the worst heat wave we've had, it got to 58 degrees in the shallows.

I have another neighbor, who get this, went down 4 feet and hit an artesian, the head temperature is 45 degrees! This neighbors is only 200 yards from the pond of speaking of right now and I temped both heads with the same thermometer. I never thought it was physically possible to have such cold water well temps in lower MI as 45 degrees.


Depends on the latitude of the well. Ground water temps are very close to the mean annual air temp. Mine is about 52 F. mean average air temp at my latitude. My well water with a very accurate thermometer is 51.6 F.

With all due respect if you're getting a 45 F. ground water temp in the lower peninsula, I have doubts about the accuracy of the thermometer. It's also very common for thermometers to be inaccurate.

I could see it if it's close to the surface during a colder part of year though.

Northern Peninsula Michigan and Wisconsin ground water temps are about 48 down to 45 F. the farther north and closer you get to Lake Superior. Lower Peninsula should be in the low 50's depending on latitude.

Did you know the mean average temp of Lake Superior is 39 F.? Now that's some cold freaking water!

Conversely Florida's ground water temps are over 70 F.!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/26/14 08:38 AM.

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Originally Posted By: timshufflin
My friend has a pond which he will be using for trout, smallmouth and walleye. He wants to start a forage base. His water never gets over 59 degrees. What type of minnow would spawn in such a pond and make good forage for these types of fish.


Smelt! grin

Not technically a minnow of course.

Doubt you'd get a viable population in the pond anyway.

Why not stock with trout and feed pellets?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil, cool info about the average water temps. 51 yrs ago I spent a summer on Isle Royal, a national park(island) 12 miles off the coast of Canada in lake Superior. Being 12 and about as sharp as I am now, I'd swim everyday it wasn't rainin. The guys that worked trail maintenance only got to go to the mainland of Mich on the fourth of July and of course all the island residents knew to go down to the big dock and watch these boys return. Being young and basically cut off from civilization they tended to over indulge in the evil liquids. I distinctly remember seeing one fellow get off the plane and weave back and forth many times till he got to the other side of the 10' wide dock and just step right off. When he came up he said "gosh dang" or something real similar, "that's the quickest I've ever sobered up. It WAS frigin cold.


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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: timshufflin
My friend has a pond which he will be using for trout, smallmouth and walleye. He wants to start a forage base. His water never gets over 59 degrees. What type of minnow would spawn in such a pond and make good forage for these types of fish.


Smelt! grin

Not technically a minnow of course.

Doubt you'd get a viable population in the pond anyway.

Why not stock with trout and feed pellets?


I agree...might be a put and take pellet fed fishery which isn't a bad thing - sounds FAR simpler to achieve goals frankly without population metrics across multiple species to manage.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57


I agree...might be a put and take pellet fed fishery which isn't a bad thing - sounds FAR simpler to achieve goals frankly without population metrics across multiple species to manage.



I couldn't agree more.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Cecil and others are providing the best advice. With those low water temps combined with raising fish in such a small pond (0.1ac) and a with short water retention time (flow through), the only way you will would get any measurable production (fish lbs) is to raise trout and feed them pellets once or twice a day. Relying on natural foods including forage fish will result in a low standing crop and low carrying capacity. Walleye and SMB will grow very slowly in water that does not get above 59F. Stick with the trouts.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/26/14 03:48 PM.

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Bill, would some type of aquatic vegetation and adding scuds or something similar work in lieu of introducing baitfish? Crawfish? Ghost shrimp?

Pellets are great but having some type of natural forage also available would be a huge bonus.



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Good thinking outside the box, Steve...I know Devil's Lake has little to no forage except YOY fish and relies entirely on their scud population - at least according to the guides I've fished with there [Jason Mitchell]and the wise Dr. Willis. If a fish eats enough of anything, regardless of size, apparently they will grow. I might be missing a part of this puzzle tho - a 10# walleye can't get that large eating scuds, rather, eating 4-6" YP which are eating scuds...that's how it works, yes?


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Most vegetation will maybe live but not thrive in water below 60F. Short retention time and small acreage will not produce very much food even with vegetation. Plant species that will thrive there will likely choke the entire 5-6ft depth zone maybe even down to 8ft deep. Short retention time prevents use of herbicides. Remember we are talking about only 0.1 ac. Basically a slow moving raceway as I understand the description.


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How about rock piles instead of vegetation? Structure that small things like scuds and ghost shrimp could hide in?



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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: timshufflin
My friend has a pond which he will be using for trout, smallmouth and walleye. He wants to start a forage base. His water never gets over 59 degrees. What type of minnow would spawn in such a pond and make good forage for these types of fish.


Smelt! grin

Not technically a minnow of course.

Doubt you'd get a viable population in the pond anyway.

Why not stock with trout and feed pellets?


Of course, that's what I would do. His pond is what my dream pond would be. We are individuals though and my neighbor has a craving for walleye and smallies as well as the trout.

He could cut his flow off to warm the water for spawning of minnows but really quite impractical, he'd lose his stream and he is going to be putting trout in this little stream, it's going to be quite neat. Picture the trout in a Cabela's you might have gone to swimming about the stream though out the store.

On the water temp, I was just shocked to see two artesian wells put out water that is 7.5 degrees different in temperature while only being 200 yards apart at the head.

I guess some yellow perch are in order with some rocky outlays to hold the crayfish.


I just got a new pond, I made it twice because I aint so bright.

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