Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Water chemistry Ken's hatchery Recommendations

Bill,
Please no offense intended but, WHY is Greg the "bad" guy here? Why is it a "cheap shot" to request someone answer straight forward questions? I too would like to hear the answers!
Alot of answers have been given but not the specific ones.
It is not unreasonable to ask why one recommends one product over another.
It IS however intresting why these questions go unanswered.
The only response I have heard is "some people are close minded".
Well, evasive tactics are common in politics & certainly fool alot of people, but I would still like to have straight forward answers to Gregs questions.
To date I have heard nil. Why is that?????????

I agree with Ric Swaim. One should be able to defend their statements with good answers that are reproducable. Hopefully the answers have some scientific background, or merit or are the result of some testing or actual field experiences where hopefully some data or photographic records have been collected. Opinions are that just opinions.

Ric no offense taken, Ded has stated that some questions she does not know the answer to and will have to research them and try to get an answer. I think thats fair. If Greg had finished his sentence "if you simply will answer questions" I would not have posted. It was the "without hidden agendas to get more mgmt." that I thought was inappropriate and uncalled for.

Greg's a friend and we know we have a difference of opinion on Ken.

Bill Cody :

Thank you very much !!! Very well said and needed. This is doubly so when the opinions are comming from a scientist/hatchery who sells the product or gives out plans of advice. Please give me the science to back up the advice so I will understand. If the science/facts/ background are given and the fisheries scientists on this forum have a problem with it then double caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).
ewest

Guys please just stop the roll of this thread for a moment. I have been a biologist since 1994, but have only been dealing in this industry for 2 years. In the beginning I was asked our procedures, and I answered this question. Then a barrage of questioning came that I could not answer, and I stated that (on several posts). Are our methods right or wrong? I do not know. Our ways are what I was taught, and until joining this forum only three weeks ago I never had a reason to question these procedures. Now with all the information I have read here and elsewhere I agree it is a subject that we might need to change. But I still am not comfortable enough with the subject to speak accurately on it. Do not misconstrue any of my words as an evasive tactic with a hidden agenda. See it for what it honestly is as a person with a scientific background who is taking an intellectual approach towards researching a subject that she is not familiar with. Give me straight biology, and I am comfortable defending what I have learned through the years. This thread however is all new to me, and the least you can do is give me the time to research that I have asked for. Again this is not evasiveness, but an admitted lack of knowledge in a particular area.

Thank you,

Deb

Deb, may I make a suggestion to you?

In my opinion, it may be a good idea to re-register yourself on this forum as yourself without any reference to GG/Holyoak.

I say this because as a biologist, you have not really participated in the root biology phases of what Holyoak is doing or has done. Therefore, your defense of said topic, or attempts to enlighten the forum have to be viewed as "pro-company" party line statements. I believe that you have made it clear that you do not really know the answers to a lot of questions that are being asked of you.

If I have to make a guess, I don't think those answers are going to be provided (easily, anyway) to you and then to the forum.

If anything, Holyoak has to now realize that providing information to this forum is equal to providing technical information to some of the top professionals in the industry. Holyoak has not done this in the past, and I don't see them doing it now.

Again, this is just my observation, but as long as you post under "Georgia Giant Man," you will always be viewed as a proponent of Holyoak. Of course, there is nothing wrong with being a proponent of Holyoak (or an employee), however, you have not participated in what their trade secret really is, and therefore have your hands tied as to discussing it in the depth that certain forum members want.

Thanks.

I agree with Bill Duggan that Greg's last comments of his 11:06 AM post were not needed, as were several posts before Geaorgia Giant Man was a living entity on this forum. I dont know how any of you can keep defending his public bashing regardless of what you think of his targets' products, or methods.

Take the high road after one more shot; that's how I saw it. Let the bashing begin-on another thread so it won't get buried.

burgermiester,
I would agree with you had it been the first time Greg asked. But it wasn't.
Those of us that are curious about the GG & WANT the claims to be true need these questions answered!

I think most people will rephrase their questions to be more pointed when the answers don't come.

For those of us that have known Greg on this forum for a good while also know he has a real concern for pond owners. He is an asset that I don't want to see run off. Many have benefited from his knowledge & advise here.
Greg has given a couple of testimonials of customers that turned to him after following Ken's advice, to restore their pond to something they could enjoy.
I think deference to a known peer of Pond Boss members is called for.
Who knows, maybe Greg will hang himself here & at least 2 PB members I know will be thrilled!

I well understand that research takes time. I can be patient. Most of us should understand that collecting scientific data can take time while a study runs its course. I think at least some of the previous discussions were for asking the questions and for "setting the stage" of what type of data we are expecting when ever the answers were provided.

Deb has endured a blitz of questioning which she probably never expected. So far she has held up quite well considering that she is new to "Ken's team". She may want to do as Sunil suggests; sign in under a different name.

that was typo.. supposed to read "Deb I will not bring up past clients claims if you will simply answer questions without saying I have hidden agendas to get more mgmt. thanks." She stated GG info but said somehting like it benefits those who manage lakes to stock a certain way. I felt I needed to defend myself there. I simply meant with typo for her to not make these type comments.

Bill hope that makes it diff. I swaer other than defending myself I have been fairly straight forward with questions and not made the claims I made prior to Deb speaking up.

Deb, I understand you have alot of questions I appreciate you trying to answer them. I tried in my last post to ask simplier questions. 1. Please can you simply tell me chemical composition of what reads in the catalog as "calcium"? THis would be a start if I:m to understand your recommendations.

Who knows, maybe Greg will hang himself here & at least 2 PB members I know will be thrilled!

Ric, that is typical of 'one last shot'. I dont know Greg, Deb, Ken or you, but do recognize when questions are being skewed due to regional competition. I don't give a damn who hangs who.

Thanks greg did not seem like you to make that statement, hope you understand me taking it that way

Bill

Burger, did you read my last post? how are my questions skewed? I'm trying to get straight forward answers by asking straight forward questions, see that as you will. BTW I have made one sell in that area of their hatchery so sorry bud no competetion there we are about 4 hours apart.

Greg, why are you so hung up on "what's in the bag?" People on this forum have posted that hydrated lime has been their product of choice for years, due to limited access to pond, ease of use, or whatever; and they have a good bloom all summer. I have a bloom with no fertilizer and neutral pond.

I would have told you long ago; you want to know, order a bag. Yes, hydrated lime washes out after a big rain. It's pretty obvious that when all or nearly oll the water is exchanged, the chemical makeup won't be the same. Yes, I understand that ag lime blended into the bottom will slowly replenish the alkaline components.
There is more than one way to 'skin a cat'.

Deb, you're losing way too much sleep tending to this forum. Check back when you have all Greg's questions answered(stocking rates & 'what's in the bag".

bruger, man talking about screwing up a potential learning experience. Get your facts straight, have you read the post? I just explained I have used hydrated lime and agree with what you said it does not last, does Deb understand this? Bob described ag lime perfectly. Deb said in a post they recommend "calcium" not hydrated lime. BTW hydrated lime is calcium hydroxide, CaoH, duh not the info needed. I'm tyring to find out what they mean by calcium.