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Joined: Apr 2014
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We're getting a little excited having people come out next week to give us a few quotes... but are a little worried about getting our hopes up for nothing. The more and more we go out to our field and picture in our minds what it will look like, the more we want it.

So I dug 4 test holes 3' into the soil just to check it out. I couldn't do a water test to see how fast the water ran out because as soon as I got to the 3' level on each hole, water started to seep through some of the layers and filled up each hole. Not sure if this is a good sign for me or not?

In 1 of the holes I did hit a hard layer of shale which prevented me from digging any farther.

The other holes I pulled out chunks of gray clay... but also pulled out some not so bad soil. I only know what the gray clay looks like... the other soil which was a red/orange/brown was sticky like clay... but it wasn't as bad as the chuncks of gray clay I found. It crumbled a little more where the gray stuff kind of snapped because it didn't absorb any water. I know I have a high level of clay simply from the ground getting saturated during the winter months or after a hard rain.

1. What percentage of clay do I need so the pond wont leak
2. If they hit some shell layers, will this matter at all or does the pond have to be rock free?
3. Do counties normally require any permits for ponds that are smaller, roughly 100 x 50?
4. What happens after the pond is built, if it doesn't hold water, and we already paid? Is there a way to look at it or test to see if it will work BEFORE it rains?

The majority of everything that came out of the hole was looked to be clay. It hasn't rained since last week and the surface soil is still very squishy. I know our soil stinks just because of the hassles from gardening in this sticky stuff.

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Well, im new but from what I've read shale will leak so u may need to pack the ground then pack a layer of clay to hold water... As for gurantees, just depends on the specs of your contract. They can range from a spitshake to complex warrenties.

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1. The best mix, IMO, is about 60% clay and 40% soil. Sand doesn't hurt as long as the dozer operator mixes it. It's not unusual for an experienced pond builder to do that. 100% clay cracks when it dries so a mixture is desirable. It's also tough to grow the needed grass on a 100% clay dam and that is an understatement.

2. What kind of and amount of shell layers are you talking about? How much of it is there relative to clay and soil?

3. I'm not familiar with Ohio or your Counties laws.

4. All ponds seem to leak a little. New ponds also wick water back into the surrounding areas. It's the nature of water meeting soils. So, a new pond can fill and then have a water level drop when water enters the new hole. It is to be expected. The water level rises and falls until the surrounding soils are saturated.

What happens if it doesn't hold water? That has happened to the best of pond builders. There are unknown factors when digging a hole in soils that you can't see. But a responsible professional will/should handle the problem.

Contact the Pond Boss office and order the book "Perfect Pond. Want one?" It will be your cheapest investment and will answer the questions that you don't knew to ask. Make sure that you select a dozer guy who builds ponds; not just cuts grade or clears land. There's a huge difference. Look around your area for ponds. Ask who built it and if they are satisfied. Do this until you get a lot of good answers. Look for guys who understand local soils, runoff amounts, packing with a sheepsfoot roller instead of a dozer, coring, etc and the list goes on. Read everything here about pond building but STILL buy the book.




Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 05/05/14 05:48 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I have a 7 A. pond in my back yard. When I moved in it had 2 ft of water in it and a leaky dam. It has a 2.5 sq mile watershed. There is 666 cu ft/sec of water that goes over the spillway that is in bad shape. My ex and I drained it and removed 5000 dump truck loads of clay out and repaired the dam. Now a contractor is going to finish it and take the dirt. He has dug in the middle of the pond 8' down and hit shale. There is 6" of water it in now in a dry spring. He says I dont need a clay botton "Look its holding water now" Is he right? Everything I read says you have to have a clay bottom. Help!

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Field, you need to start a new thread, it will get lost in a sub-thread like this. No, hitting shale on the bottom of your pond is not a good thing, as shale is full of cracks and potential leaky areas. You need to get that shale plated over and compacted with good clay.

I would recommend calling someone like Mike Otto with a project that large to come take a look, he covers your area I believe.

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i don t know ur depth yet and it seems ur not sure yet if you just dug to the clay like i see many do and build up the sides like we do out in west texas and i have started here ur gonna need a few feet of clay i have been seeing where someone has been asking about bentonite clay and they are assuming it seals like clay its a chemical thing most people do not enter into in most topics drilling mud clay is ment to seal off permeable sandstone not sand ,, when it gets to sand layers down deep or just within the so called surface zone 300 to 1500 ft down if u hit sand or a wash out ur talking pumping in cotton, pecan hulls,,, to stop the wash out until the cement trucks get there if they must keep drilling most often ,, bentonite clay will build up a skin over say a sandstone this is to reduce loss not to seal a perment loss thats where a pond liner and or cement under sand,, i have seen only clay and i have several layers of clay down about a 100 foot step slpoe which is covered with what i call surface seeps ,, and yes i can dig down to pretty good depth and hit water if i am on a hill its just usualy right above clay layer and it can be clay or it you look really good a clay or fine fine sand,, a lot of so called sand is really a clay loom if you silt it out and clay does not matter if you are going to cover it or line it but if you are going to depend on the clay alone ,,, i have thrown in channel cat and the slim is supposed to close of leaks since they make a slime off the body and they like to back off and dig into holes in the edges of ur dam for example,,, if your depending on the rain and /or runing spring if you do not digg too deep and slpoe thesides right and seal off the upper top soil u should get a nice pond but clay is 75% aluminum and yes all ponds are clay,, yet we have an epidemic of dementia and alziemes so i am still out on this one,, i don t eat just any fish and im not here to scare everyone or argue about what i already know is a problem and my experience in the human body and the effects are limited i have heard that floride is pulling in the aluminum that is in everything into our bodies so that i ll leave for you all to hash out i know what my choices are going to be and i don t plan on changing them,, but for a nice fun hobby of catch and release and fun for the kids i run my ponds as nature laid them and they are a mix of all of the above but i am leaning towards liners over my clay covered with a few inches of sand and that liner may or may not be cement or food grade plastic,over cement or clay since even cement leaches out alkaloids that also kill the fish,, but to ask how much clay you need is a trick question since the dimensions are your first requirement and the type of clay ur gonna use,, my grey clay is and yours maybe really volcanic ash clay and its pretty good at draining since its chemicaly affected,, salt will seperate it its almost a bentonite type clay just not processed and sold to you at a steep mark up,, to know what your clay will do see if you can make it into balls and bowls,, let it dry does it stay in shape and brittle or does it crumble or never hole its shape,, you have white clay, its supposed to be really good and grey and read and all have diff properties and your water,, the fish and how you treat all of them will effect everything,, i have a nice 20 for deep dry hole on the front of the property that someone has build before i cam it never has held water,, the bottoms hold water due to its well below flood plain and its a swamp with a bout 3 foot of top soil over sand, i have watched my neighbor just sink 100000$ mid hill where i have my seeps and he has same seeps but he hauled at least 6 inches of clay in over all of his ,,,his is too big for liner i am building my newer ponds based on the liners i can find or the cement i want to afford, verses just hoping my clay and my shaping abilities will hold water

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Welcome to the forum wrongplanet. I don't know about driller's mud, but sodium bentonite is a naturally occurring, mined clay, perhaps there are some chemicals added for specific use in drilling operations.

Rick, like Dave Davidson said, pure clay will shrink and crack when drying. As to "how much clay", that depends on the type available or used. Different types have different properties. Less bentonite clay is needed, because it swells so much when in water and sort of self-compacts to fill voids..I think 10% bentonite well tilled/mixed into marginal soils is standard, but I'm not positive there. In Ohio, if your water table is high and KEEPS your test holes filled, it would be cheaper to excavate deeper, and let the natural water table keep it at whatever it's water level is. Otherwise, a pond builder familiar with your soils will know your clay types and wherever clay is needed (outside the dam core) on sides and/or bottom, the clay blanket is spread in 6" lifts, then each lift is well compacted to "stitch" it all together.




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