Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Water chemistry Septic discharge?

My Brother in law and I purchased some property together, and we share the lake which runs the length of it. Meaning half the lake is on my 7 ac. and the other half on his 7 ac. The lake is 5 ac. He is building a house on the rear of the property which is 40 ft. from the lake. When it was time to put the septic tank in, I told him to make sure it drains away from the lake (for obvious reasons) When the health dept. came to inspect the layout of the property, they said he had to drain the septic into the lake! I questioned this to him and he was told,that was the ONLY place they would allow it to drain, because of the way the ground lays. NOW, My question is, How will this affect our lake? Has anyone run across this kind of situation, or does anyone have a septic tank draining into their lake? This can't be good!!!! Please give me some good news!

I design Engineered Septic Systems for a living and I can't imagine for the life of me someone telling you to let it drain toward the lake! When dealing with open water the drain field should be a minimum of 50 ft and we try for an extra 50ft. beyond that in this office. Has he the potential to put in a pump system to put the drainfield farther away? They really aren't that more expensive and give much better treatment of the effluent. Is there already a house on the property? One of the big mistakes people make is that they place the house where they want and the Septic is an afterthought. The septic should be sighted first (obviously taking into account where someone MAY want the house) and then work the house around the septic and pond. He can install an Engineered System (sand filter, Advantex, Scat type systems) on the property that will treat the effluent more efficiently prior to discharge to a drain field but he will still have to worry about Ecolli which are the nasty bugs. Sorry I don't have alot of good news.

the only comment i have is that my "grey water" which is ...i think...the clothes washer runoff..drains into the edge of our 7.5 acre pond...can barely see any even trickling over the edge, so i can't imagine it causing any probs. i guess if i had a big family with a lot of "grey water", then maybe it might..at which point i would look into some sort of environmentally safe laundry deteregent (not sure of "Tide's" effect on the environment!!!
Find you another septic guy for another opinion!!

Fozzybear
I'm in a similiar situation. I have a small hunting cabin about 100 yards from a pond. I want to put in a septic system, but I have fairly wet/clay type soil. I know this because we dug a 12 ft. deep hole to bury some stuff and at about 6 ft. we started getting into wet clay. Will a conventional drainfield work here? Is there an alternative septic system I should build in this situation?
Thanks

Chet, an alternative system may work with the soils you encountered. Depth to water is the limit factor usually. With Clay a raised bed mound with an application rate of 1/5th of a gallon per square foot per day would be adequeate for your cabin I would think. All rules are different state to state so check with your local health department for their requirements but I wouldn't be afraid to put one in under those situations.

As far as Grey Water goes I would think that the main problem with grey water discharge is the extrememly high amounts of Phosphorus that is in laundry detergent. I would think that this would lead to algae problems etc. You also get small amounts of e-colli from laundry discharge. I have heard of people burying a 500 gallon drywell ( septic tank with holes in the side and no bottom for those who don't know what a drywell is) within 50 feet of a pond that they discharge their grey water to without any harm.

I'm Administrator of a health department so have some knowledge about these things, but I don't have the direct environmental health experience and haven't asked my EH Director about it so take this FWIW. I'm sure Fozzybear has more direct knowledge.

Most septic systems require a certain amount of slope due to problems in pumping sewage uphill.

The bad news is that it sounds to me that the only place with adequate slope on the property in the location where your brother in law wants to place the house must be towards the lake. You can look at different systems to minimize the effluent, but liquids go downhill. Regardless of the system, you will get some additional e colliform bacteria, elevated phosphorus and etc.

The good news is that the effluent's impact on a decent size body of water like that may not be significant. Obviously, ducks, geese, raccoons, and other wildlife routinely defecate in that water now so you would naturally have bacteria anyway. I know our department has approved systems that drain into bodies of water such as that. Volume makes a difference as well as human source.

I would encourage you to call the Health Department Inspector, express your concerns, and ask for more information.

P.S. Will anyone be getting their water supply from the lake?

Please let us know what you find out.

A btt more explanation regarding my question about water supply. If your brother is drilling a water well, he would not want the septic system located closely to it or draining towards it. That could impact the Inspector's recommendation as to the septic system's location.

Which county is Mildstat in?

My B-inlaw is hooked up to city water, but we have no city sewer system out here. He built his house on a rolling hill section of the property and If it drains anywhere else, it would collect in a low lying area and stink to high heaven. So I can see their point as far as that goes. I just think something else can be done to keep that waste out of our lake. Will be making some phone calls and keep you all posted. Millstadt is in southern St. Clair county, south of Belleville.

i am by far an expert on septic systems, however my contractors are supposed to be digging the footer for my new home today. my septic system is required to have a "perimeter drain" around the entire leach bed. my perimeter drain will make a complete circle around the leach bed to prevent water from standing in the leach bed. this perimeter drain is only to drain off excess water and not SEWAGE. i intend to drain this into my pond if there is enough fall in the ground there, if not i will drain it towards my fathers property. i would definately ask some questions, but if it is the same situation as mine, i don't think it's a problem.

Brad:
I'm about 80 miles east of you then. Kevin Hutchinson is the Administrator of the St. Clair County Health Department. In my opinion, he is one of the best in the state and he would be a credit to any profession. I'd be surprised if his staff did a bad job.
I wouldn't worry about it too much.
P.S. They are trying to make drastic and bad changes to Illinois septic system regulations.
Jeff

Well I called the health dept. Could'nt get a hold of Kevin H. but did talk to another guy and he said we should be o.k. He did suggest taking water samples and have them analyzed before and after the septic is being used. The house won't be finished for a few months yet. So I'll get the vials from them this week and send them off to the lab. Then next spring will get some more samples and compare results. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!!

Brad, Have you considred an anerobic septic system? I've heard of them and talked to people who have them but never seen one. Basically, microbes, that you add, break down solids and you use the resultant "cleaned" water as a sprinkler for your lawn. No real discharge involved. I understand that they cost about $10 a month for electricity but don't know how they work.

Anerobic systems are "SOP" here in SE Texas. To wet for drain fields. There is maintenance involved with the adding of clorine tablets. But is supposed to emit clear fluid, that can be used for watering.

I have one, so does my b-inlaw. But when I look at my discharge, it aint clear. It stinks too. I've been using rid-x cause I thought thats what your supposed to use. The guy at the health dept. told me don't use anything, human waste is the best bacteria in the world! I have not used the chlorine tabs yet, but will soon. I suppose I'll have to invest in an aerator/diffuser system next spring to help the lake out.We'll see.

I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance here but I would think that chlorine tablets would kill the bacteria that you need to break down the solid wastes. Of course, it might improve the smell. Also, what does the chlorined liquid waste do to grasses?

I've been out of the business before these systems became required. But they act more like a sewage treatment plant than a septic system. They
contain pumps and aeration and the clorine is washed over some how. Anyone else?

This conversation is starting to scare me. Don't ever, and I can't stress this enough, ever put any additives into your Septic Tank. Especially chlorine unless you have a specific system designed for it. The bacteria in human waste is all that you ever need in a septic tank. If you need to add Rid-X or something like that to get your septic system to work properly than you are doing something wrong. Aerobic treatment units normally will produce a discharge that is clear but NOT decontaminated. They will still have E-Colli in the discharge which is then sent to some shallow (12") trenches much like a traditional septic field. The aerobic treatment unit is primarily used to treat the effluent so that the ground receiving the disharge can more easily handle it. This means they are used in places that have clay, or clay loam as a soil which will receive the disharge. Sorry about rambling on but "If you don't eat it or drink it then don't put it into you Septic System!!"

The system we have here at work uses spray nozzles to disperse the treated waste water over our back lot. This is the excepted standard. it is not a septic system.

I have an anerobic system. They have three tanks, all waste goes into the first with a agitator that breaks it down The second tank is for the solids to settle out. The liquid goes into the last tank, gets clorine added. Gets sprayed onto the yard. Mine stinks too, clorine and other chemicals have to be added periodically. I have to call my contractor (got a service contract) to come add the chemicals to make it not stink.

my parents have one of those septic systems that have some pump and agitator that requires electricity. has broken several times! they got it because we have a large family, lot's of folks/grandkids etc. using the toilets! never has backed up though, and now it just runs and they don't ever have to do anything to it. the water is clear, and was "approved" by whoever approves that stuff! also, my septic buddy told me never to use ridx because it can actually destroy the integrity of the concrete septic tank. said if you add anything, brewers/bakers yeast per month, one little package...if you add anything add all. but he said nooooo rid x. hope things work out well, sit down and enjoy a newspaper!! mark