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#380279 06/22/14 07:35 AM
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I I have just discovered that I have GSF in my pond. They are 2-4" now. About a month ago I noticed I had some very aggressive fish feeding right next to my feeder and they have doubled in size since then. I caught 2 and took to my fish guy Friday and confirmed they were a bred down hybrid BG. Don't have a clue on how they got in my pond but so far only notice a few of them. He gave me a minnow trap so hopefully I can catch them. I have lots of big BG (8+") and LMB so hopefully they can keep them in check. Any other ideas on getting rid of them?

jdfarmer #380288 06/22/14 09:06 AM
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Small jig or #10_#12 hook with bait drug along the bank about 3 ft out and a foot deep will get some of the 4" ones. Once you get a strike just keep draging the hook past the same area till you get him. The small ones never seem to tire at biting.


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snrub #380294 06/22/14 10:20 AM
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What are your goals for the pond?


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
jdfarmer #380310 06/22/14 12:01 PM
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Big BG was the main goal.

jdfarmer #380312 06/22/14 12:54 PM
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I'd just keep a high population of <14" LMB and let them hammer the smaller GSF and BG. Keep catching and removing all GSF that you hook. I think draining, rotenoning and starting over is a fast fix, but by keeping constant angling pressure on them, and letting the LMB do their thing you can keep them in control and stay focused on your goals for the pond without starting over.

I'd view the GSF as small LMB in regards to their predatory status in the pond, not as BG.

Last edited by esshup; 06/22/14 12:55 PM.

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esshup #380314 06/22/14 01:48 PM
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Interesting comment esshup about the GSF acting like LMB, it brings up something I have been wondering about. As some may know from my own pond scenario, I have had GSF from the start too. Right now it seems like I am having a lot of GSF in the 2-4" range. Yet my small BG numbers almost seem non existent. Could the GSF be eating the BG fry(like small bass would)?

--Forgot to mention that a GSF that was 2.5" long was full of eggs. Perhaps that's why they are outnumbering the BG?





Last edited by fish n chips; 06/22/14 02:37 PM.
jdfarmer #380321 06/22/14 03:28 PM
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My GSF are full of eggs too. I have a a lot of small BG from last years spawns so not in same situation yet. Thanks guys! I'm really hoping not to have to start over cause I have some really nice BG.

esshup #380325 06/22/14 04:34 PM
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The small ones are sure shaped like a bass. I went out and caught about 40 of them this morning. Smallest about 3" with most 3.5-4".

Others mentioned eggs. These act like they are on a nest, because once I find them it is usually a matter of several tries and if I don't get them the first time, usually get them eventually in about the same spot.

Three pics below, two of the typical fish and the third what I was catching them on today.

Too bad their average size wasn't about a pound or two. Would be nice fish to catch, but few get big enough to be worth anything. I can remember eating them as a kid but they were usually small and bony. Bony would be my guess because they likely never got big enough for anyone to bother to fillet so we just cut the head off and scaled them.

Could probably catch smaller ones if I had a smaller jig and hook.

If I threw the line out too far, sometimes would catch one of the nice BG or a hybrid I had put in the pond on the same lure. Tried to avoid that and concentrate on getting some GSF out of the pond before they spawned.

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Last edited by snrub; 06/22/14 04:40 PM.

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As mentioned if you keep your bass population high or numerous especially those less than 14" then the bass should just about eliminate the GSF unless you have 'tons' of cover. GSF like to hide and frequent nooks and crannies of rocks and similar structure as secure more locations. It takes numerous small bass to keep GSF at low densities. At high densities GSF can eliminate recruitment of BG and LMB and most other forage species.


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Bill Cody #380336 06/22/14 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
At high densities GSF can eliminate recruitment of BG and LMB and most other forage species.


Bill, I saw that in a clients pond. He stocked YP/RES/FHM/GSH and let them stew for almost 2 years before wanting to add SMB. I did a survey in the pond before we stocked SMB and found no recruitment from those species due to some GSF that were in the wet spot in the woods that he turned into a pond. Another area that was turned into a pond of the same size, at the same time, and stocked with the same fish showed a lot of recruitment. The difference between the 2 ponds? No GSF.

The pond with GSF was drained 90% and nuked with Rotenone.


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jdfarmer #380340 06/22/14 05:32 PM
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Not to hijack the thread but this topic has me thinking.

I have read people say that HBG will revert back to GSF over time. We know this to not be entirely true because you are never going to actually breed out the bluegill genes. But is it possible that it appears this way for a reason?

Maybe
1) large mouth size is a dominant trait?
2) Natural selection, the large mouth fish survive better?

Bill Cody #380343 06/22/14 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
At high densities GSF can eliminate recruitment of BG and LMB and most other forage species.


I am starting to think that's were my situation is going. I have had the LMB in there for two years, and I saw them spawn this year for sure. So, I don't know if I should wait one more year to see if they were successful, but by then it may be bad. The LMB are around that 10 -14" size. Just today before seeing this post I was thinking about finding some LMB that were in the 6" range (maybe I should even go smaller so they grow up by starting to eat .75" GSF ? ). I am thinking that the larger original LMB are wanting bigger prey so now the small GSF are plentiful. Don't have many GSF that are over 4-5".

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When you don't think you have much of a recruitment from the bass it is usually a good idea to stock some 2"-4" LMB so they put predation pressure on the hatchling GSF. Smaller predators eating smaller types of prey. Larger predators rarely eat the smallest prey unless the small prey is very easy to catch such as fathead minnows.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/16/15 11:37 AM.

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Bill Cody #380494 06/24/14 12:23 PM
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I have found a source of LMB that is very close to me that has feed-trained LMB. He has some 4-6" ones right now at a very reasonable price for my area.

At my pond:

- Need to knock back the GSF in the 1 - 3" range.

- I currently feed twice a day.


Do you think that this would be a bad decision to get these? Will they eat the GSF or stay on feed? He also has 8", would that be a better size? I imagine they are all culls (he's cleaning out his ponds to start up the next round) and are slow growing, but in a pond where stunted LMB will be my management practice, I am assuming that's ok ? Is there a reason why I would want 2-4" instead of the 4-6"?

fish n chips #380511 06/24/14 01:49 PM
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What size are the LMB in the pond now? (if any)


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esshup #380516 06/24/14 02:03 PM
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10-14". That's why I was thinking 8" are still to big. The 10" LMB aren't interested or can't keep up with them, and 8" will become 10" to soon.

fish n chips #380517 06/24/14 02:13 PM
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I'd go 4"-6" being concerned that anything smaller could be eaten by the LMB in there now. Even 4" LMB could become snacks.....


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esshup #380518 06/24/14 02:18 PM
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Forgot to mention that since this is an old renovated pond there is cover around the edges. I think that may be a reason why the bigger ones are having a tough time. Perhaps a smaller fish will be able to squeeze in with better results.

jdfarmer #380540 06/24/14 06:12 PM
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I'm hoping I can manage around mine, or maybe even the GSF hybridize with some of the RES or BG.

I have one big advantage that the 1 acre pond with the GSF is not my main pond and the main 3 acre pond is only an eighth mile away and is available to take larger fish from it and put in the smaller pond. So I have the luxury of being able to pull larger size BG and LMB from the larger pond to put in the smaller pond with GSF as needed.

Also saw a 3-4" RES on a bed today in the shallows with a female trying to make babies in my micro forage pond. So hopefully will have RES I can grow up to size for replacements as needed also. The male was running off several other fish (hopefully other RES as that and FHM is all there is supposed to be in that pond)trying to get in on the action.

John

Last edited by snrub; 06/24/14 06:13 PM.

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snrub #380602 06/25/14 09:43 AM
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At this time, I am considering yanking out the larger bass, if I can, while adding the smaller ones. I don't have many adult BG in there, and possibly a boost to their spawning might be a good thing at this point. Flip side to that the bass will feed on them as well, thus reducing the number of GSF taken. Hmmmm... maybe I won't.

fish n chips #380654 06/25/14 10:45 PM
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That is kind of the same type problem I consider about feeding in the pond with GSF. On one hand, the GSF gobble the feed up and maybe they would leave the BG and RES fry alone a little more. On the other hand, feeding will likely cause the GSF to grow and spawn even more profusely.

Darned if I do, darned if I don't.


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The GSF will only spawn annually. And 99% of them will be eaten. But then, only about 1% of fish ever reach maturity.

Admittedly, I'm a GSF fan. They outfight a BG every time.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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jdfarmer #380673 06/26/14 07:12 AM
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How big will a GSF get? Right now mine all hang out right in feeder next to a cattail clump. They know there's LMB cause they hit the feed & head for whatever cover there is. I can catch the same size BG in the same spot & Dave is right a GSF is fun to catch even if it's only 4".

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When GSF have reduced numbers and lower competition or adequate food they will grow easily to 8" and even to 9" and sometimes to 10". Once GSF become mature expect growth increments to be about 3/4"-1/2" per year - less as they reach 7".


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jdfarmer #380677 06/26/14 08:24 AM
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So if I could keep my population in check I could have a some really nice GSF & BG & probably some hybrid BG or res?

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