Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Water chemistry water clarity and algae problems

Hopefully someone out there can help me i have a 1.75 acre pond which is 2yrs old. this yr. i have had a problem with water clarity and planktonic algae.I have treated the pond with earthtec at the recommended rate for the algae with no improvement i have also used microbe-lift aqua-c at the recommended rate with no improvement and have also used dyeall with no positive results.I had a water specialist test my water today with the following results ph7.3 dissolved o2 11ppm,alkalinity 40, hardness 5gr/gal or 85parts/per million, nitrate 4parts/million, copper o iron 6parts per /million, amonia .25 parts per million any help would be greatly appreciated. the pond does have a diffusser type aerator system.

I don't use any chemicals in my pond and I have watched my pond go through changes over a 10 year period. I usually want pea green planktonic algae to feed my food chain, but right now I have too much planktonic algae. But when my pond bottom was covered with submerged water plants the water was very clear, more clear then I wanted. My grass carp took out all of the submerged plants and I am going to take some out and replant. Also, I don't have a filamtous rug algae problem. I use Israeli Carp and Koi for this and my pond is better then any around me.

John

Brian,

You say you have a problem with water clarity and planktonic algae. Is it an aesthetic issue, or a problem that is impacting your fish population?

The source of all phytoplankton blooms is nutrients . . . excess nutrients if the bloom gets too dense. Remove the source of the nutrients and you will reduce your planktonic algae.

If all else fails, treat with Cutrine +. Kelly Duffie is the expert here, but I use one gallon/surface acre.

I feel compelled to point out here that plankton is the base of the food web in any pond and a necessary part of the system. If your goal is to produce good fishing, plankton is good. That is the principle reason for fertilization.

We specialize in water quality and can help you clear up your pond as well as eliminate your water quality issues as well as provide you water clarity in addition to eliminating algae problems. If you would like a mini course on microbiology please feel free to contact us via email and we will be able to assist you with you water quality issues. Water hardness is determinant on the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water and lowering pH will not affect the water hardness. Water hardness actually is a good thing because it is a buffering agent that will help assure that your fish are less likely to be subject to pH shock. We are happy to help. Thanks to all of you ponderers...the bug lady

Brian,
It sounds to me as though you don't actually have planktonic algae.
Have someone do a count on a sample of your water. Bill Cody does that, and sounds like the Bug Lady has her fingers in that pie, too.
At the same time, have your water further analyzed to see ppm of minerals and metals are dissolved, compared to complementary anions.
Look at the difference between cations and anions, and you might see a correlation with murkiness.

Brian - Before one treats their pond for cloudiness he/she should know what exactly is making it cloudy. You need someone to microscopically examine your water for identification of what are the solids in the water reducing light penetration. The stuff in your water may or may not be living organisms. I do those analyses (often for free for pondowners) and I am in your area of the country.

Is the water still cloudy under the ice? How deep can you see a coffee cup on a string thru a hole in the ice???
How clear do you want your water to be??

Because the header of this thread best fits my question, I'm going to post here. Like the title states, I have a concern with my recently expanded BG pond and the clarity of the water. However, unlike most posts dealing with water clarity, I'm concerned that my pond water is too clear. In one section of the pond, I can see the diffuser hose sitting on the bottom. The depth in this area is 7-8 feet.

My biggest concern is algae growth. This pond was almost bone dry for the latter part of the summer, after the expansion work, until a major rainstorm hit our area a month ago. Presently the pond is full to the point of overflow and the algae growth, along the sides of the pond, gives the appearance of a green carpet. If I'm getting this growth now, I fear the consequences next year when the algae begins to die and float to the surface. I have not tested the water in the pond.

I had given some thought to experimenting with barley straw next spring, if I could find a local supply, but now wonder if this experiment should be put to the test now?? All comments are appreciated even those that may not think I have a problem.

Russ

Russ - How big is your enlarged pond? Evidently increased nutrients from the storm runoff water and leachate from newly expossed soils stimulated a filamentous algae bloom across the illuminated areas of the bottom. Your water cloudiness settled fast. The nitrogen to phosphorus ratio of nutrients evidently favored filamentous algae rather than phytoplankton. I guess (and just a guess) too much nitrogen was present and not enough phosphorus. Another possibility was the alkalinity was too low for a phytoplankton bloom. Yours is a common problem. Growth of the filamentous algae will slow as the water temp continues to decrease. Currently our water temp in NW Ohio is 53-55F. Your water temps should be similar. If lots of snow cover does not kill the filamentous algae it will resume growth when the ice melts. Growth will continue until the mat gets thick enough to pull them lose from the bottom and masses of string algae will start appearing on the surface. If your pond is not too large you could remove lots of it at that time (Spring). You could try and treat part of the growth on the bottom (20%to 40% of shoreline) yet this fall; but do it soon before the water drops below 50F. Use a light dose of coarse grade copper sulfate (drug in a porus bag through the treatment area), Cutrine Plus granular or GreenClean granulars. I am not sure how well barley straw will work anymore this fall. It takes several weeks for the active ingredient from the straw to leach from the material in cooler water. I doubt you will get much control with straw anymore this fall. The active ingredient needs sun exposure to affect or supress new algae growth. Most of the straw's active material I think would be leached under ice cover and gone by ice melt. More straw would have to be applied then.

Do you have a Lake Rake or similar rake? How tall is the algae growth now? Tossing the rake into 7-8ft of water and retrieving it across the bottom will cloud the water and maybe pull some of the algae lose from the sediment.

Bottom line, I do not have much helpful advice to easily fix your problem.

Interesting info, Bill.

I had been thinking FA died off over Winter, due to low temps/light levels. I guess my decrease in FA during the cold months may be due to it being eaten (by the same fish populations that have kept my pond virtually free of it all this year).

P.S. If we're really the same person, does this constitute multi abuse (aka zerging)?

TG suspected as a BC, A lot of the filamentous algae will sit dormant on the bottom over winter. Some will break lose and float up under the ice. Some of the cool or cold water fialmentous algae will establish itself in fall after turnover when nutrients are redistributed during the late fall circulation. If the bottom F Algae gets some light during winter it will stay viable and start growing again in the clear, and slightly warming water after ice melt. Filamentous algae will grow well in early spring when water is too cold for early growth of many of the submerged rooted plants. Some submerged rooted plants such as Curlyleaf pondweed are adapted for good growth in cool water. If they are present they usually out compete the FA for nutrients in late fall,winter and early spring.

Bill,

I estimate this small pond to have an area of 0.15 acres with around 300,000 gallons of water. Following the expansion work this summer, I fertilized and seeded two small areas around the pond perimeter that were torn up by the tracks of the excavator. The total area of track disturbance was 200-300 sq ft. Both areas had grass established when a major rainstorm hit in early October. Due to the intensity of the storm and the contour of the property, copious amounts of runoff filtered over these two areas before entering the pond. The storm started on a Friday night and by Saturday noon, the pond was full with MUDDY BROWN water. By Sunday morning, the pond was GIN CLEAR and has remained that way.

As soon as I read your comment about nitrogen and phophorus, the light bulb went on. Do you think the fertilizer (that was broadcast on these seeded areas) may be the leading catalyst of my algae explosion?? This pond has been stocked with BG so I plan to keep it clear of snow this winter. Wanting to avoid chemical additives, I'll have to deal with the algae in the spring.

Side note: After the pond expansion work was completed, I had about 20lbs of dolomitic lime that I sprinkled on the sides of the expanded area of the pond. The expanded portion of the pond was dug 3' lower than the original pond depth (there is a "step" now between the original pond bottom and the expanded area). We had some light rainstorms that resulted in the expanded portion of the pond ending up with about 3' of water that took on a nice blue-green hue. Could this have been attributed to the lime?? Do you think adding some lime to the pond now may help develop a phytoplankton bloom to reduce clarity or would it be a waste of time with the water temp at this time of year?


Russ

Russ - I commonly see filamentous algae blooms in new ponds where the surrounding watershed was fertilized to grow new grass. I think the fertilizer rinsing in from the newly seeded area caused the filamentous growth. I think the lime helped produce the blue-green hue. Since the water is gradually getting colder you probably will not get a decent phytoplankton bloom anymore this year. The water temperature around 60F in spring is the common goal for starting to grow phytoplankton. I am not sure when is the best time for you to add lime, now or in spring. Adding lime now will give it time to dissolve and establish more alkalinity to your water. Adding fertilizer in spring with filamentous algae existing on the bottom will no doubt just stimulate more filamentous algae growth and very little phytoplankton.

Someone who regularly fertilizes ponds could give you better advice on this topic.

Your pond cleared very fast (in a couple days). Maybe the lime helped to speed the settling of sediment.

Did you stock the small pond with all male bgills or a mixed sex?.

In several of the ponds that I work with in Eastern Nebraska the only time you see significant FA blooms is between January and March. This is presumably because water temps are too low for most rooted vegetation leading to increased availability of nutrients for growth of FA. The filamentous algae is able to colonize the bottom because of ice cover enhanced water clarity due primarily to lack of wind turbulence.

Bruce - Do you know the main species of submerged rooted vegetation that grows after March in the ponds? Some submerged plants may help Russ long term with his problem.

Primarily Potamogeton types.

Sago and American pondweed.

Bill,

Because this small pond is fed by runoff from an intermittent stream, the pond has received some unexpected visitors (LMB). This has caused me to alter my original plan of male BG only. The pond was stocked with BG of mixed sex and will be managed (bass heavy) with the hopes of 8-9" BG for the kids to catch.

Thanks for the advice on the lime. On one side of the pond I have an exposed bank, around 40' in length, that is a 18" above waterline. This side of the pond is most accessible to the kids for fishing. For safety reasons, I had the banks cut at a 3 to 1 slope. It would be easy for me to plant some aquatic plants, as noted in Bruce's post (I had water plantain in the pond prior to the expansion work). In addition, I thought about adding some riprap similar to what Ryan did in this post.

1st pond

I wondered if he added limestone to address water quality issues but based on his response it does not appear that way. I'm going to have a water test done on this pond to see if my water clarity concerns could benefit from the addition of lime and if so, may end up doing what Ryan did. Any thoughts on this??

Russ,

How many times have I agonized over a pond decision only to have events of Nature obviate the decision?

I wound up with 1 fat LMB and 0 HSB in a grow-out pond this year, Russ, after stocking 50 HSB in the spring in a pond without LMB (wrong!).

ML,

How true! With high hopes of enjoying the benefits of pond ownership for many years to come, I've learned pretty quickly that Mother Nature has her own agenda. At least with the small puddles I have, its not too difficult to pump them out and start over if things go really bad. In this case, the addition of LMB is not a major setback. It causes me to adjust the gameplan abit but it'll also give the kids an additional fish tale to brag about.

I took advantage of a nice day last sunday and raked a 60' section of the pond perimeter. I was able to reach out about 6-7 feet.

Interesting change in the weather. Rake day was 55 degrees and sunny, today I'm looking out on the pond with a skim coat of ice and 2-3 inches of snow.

Quick question.

Is it typical for the pond water to clear up this time of year. My water got very clear, I can see close to 3 feet.

I think it commonly occurs in many areas. My Summer visibility runs from 1'6" to 2'6"; Winter visibility runs a foot or two farther. I'd have to check my records at home to try and figure out when the Fall transition occurs.

The biological activity of life in the water slows down the more the water approaches 39F. Ice cover facilitates settling of suspended solids. During late ice cover or immediately after the spring thaw the water should be at one of the clearest points of the year.

Ok so this is normal... The water is so clear I put my polerized sun glasses on and found my fishing pole that (something) dragged off the dock. It was about 10 feet twards the middle... It needs a good cleaning but I think its fine!

I need to revisit this topic again in reference to my small BG pond. This past week, I dropped the secchi disk in and measured 4.5 feet. I did not measure water temperature. I'm concerned about the plankton bloom or should I say lack of.

Some background fodder:

A water test on 9/7/06 yielded the following;
Alkalinity: 114 mg/l
Calcium hardness: 140 mg/l
Turbidity: 1.6 NTU
D.O.: 9.0 mg/l
pH: 8

The pond does not receive full sun till late morning. I aerate using two 9" disk membrane diffusers, one is set at 8' depth, the other at 11' depth. Runtime is 10 p.m. till 4 a.m.. Pond volume is about 300000 gallons. The pond is currently clear of any floating FA.
The bass and BG that I see in the pond appear to be healthy but, unfortunately, I've nothing to show from worm and bobber sampling. I toss a handful of feed (Purina GFC) in the morning with only 4-5 BG showing any interest. Fishing last weekend confirms golden shiners are now in the pond.

For the benefit of my fish, I'd like to reduce the secchi disk reading to 18-24" by stimulating a plankton bloom. I'm considering fertilization. Before attempting this, I phoned the lab that did my water anaylsis last fall and asked if they could analyze water for NPK content. They do not do this in house and would have to have the sample shipped out.

Question:
(1) Is time a critical factor when testing water for NPK?

I'm also open to any other suggestions to inducing a bloom.

Russ

hi russ,
i'm a bit rusty on major element water sampling, but IIRC samples collected for total nitrogen, nitrate, or nitrite have a relatively short holding time (less than 48 hrs) and require H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) preservative. Typical to get laboratory supplied containers pre-preserved then transport to lab same day for analytes w/ short hold times.

i dont recall anything special for phosphorous and potassium water samples, but imagine temp and pH swings occurring between time of sampling and extraction at lab may affect speciation of elements, and perhaps concentrations.

bottom line, call and ask lab you intend to use.

other suggestions to induce bloom? a couple canadian geese worked wonders in my little pond. feeding fish didnt hurt either, i think they're pooping alot more.