Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose how small can a fish pond be?

All,

Here is a Rainbow Trout that was introduced in mid December 2014 in Central Louisiana. I put in 22 and this is the first I have caught at the end of April. His weight is about the same as when I put them in the pond but there was 2 that were smaller out of the 22 so until I catch another, this is what I have to go by.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kS1hu39HUXg/U2_wEPz7zVI/AAAAAAAAJGY/lllGRqDfkcQ/s816/CAM00431.jpg

That's what all the young whippersnappers say!

Couppedeville -thanks for the trout picture. Hopefully others will show some put & take trout pictures.
Couppedeville It was eating size compared to some stream sized brookies that I ate back in college. Are you feeding your trout on a regular basis??
Hopefully Cecil will provide us some numbers for his pellet bass growing project several years ago. I know he has pictures.

What do you want to know about my pellet trained bass? I had up to 400 up to 6 lbs. in a .62 acre pond with no issues. Keep in mind I was overflowing my trout pond into this pond 24/7. I had up to 500 lbs. of trout in that .10 acre pond that received 45 gpm of water 25/7.

Bob I was trying to be like my hero Bob-O!

Bill,

Yes, I was feeding Aquamax 400, 500 & 600 mixture all the way up to April when the water temperature started to warm and FA took over my pond, up to 85% coverage. At this point, the feed could not reach the water so I cut off the feeder. I fed 5 times a day with the timer set on 1 second in the morning and 2 second in the evening. I have a Texas Hunter as my feeder.

I did witness the HSB & CC and a few CNBG feeding all winter long so my thought process was to carry on carrying on.I had a bloom for 2-1/2 years straight until the FA took over. As I pulled the FA out near the bank, the water was tannin brown and could see 3-4 feet deep.

I am in the process of battling the excess nutrients with culture bacteria and did spray about 40% of the surface of the pond with Cutrine about 2 weeks ago. Hopefully I will be able to catch a few more before the water temperature reaches it stressful limit for the trout.

Couppe

All great things to think about- thanks- I should have two rough estimates on my build costs in the next week or so- I only have an acre of property- and the wife won't let me cut out half of our house to make the pond bigger- I can maybe get it to about 90 feet by 60-70 feet (triangle shape). Again I don't mind the well idea, but what to do with all that overflow water is a problem. I'm sure we'd be incorporating a nice big waterfall on one end ($$) and I guess a diffuser near the center. Does that sound like adequate aeration? And I'm wondering if more aeration allows one to get away with a smaller pond as far as maintaining numbers of gamefish? Again if I could do anything I would maintain a blue gill, LMB pond- but HSB and CC, or trout all sound great too. I really appreciate the input.

Couppe, be careful with the Cutrine. Trout don't tolerate much copper in the water.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

All I can tell you for sure regarding earthen ponds is my pond is 55 X 89 feet with steep sides with a max depth of 9 feet and it stays cool enough and can handle up to 500 pounds of trout at 45 gpm. I use a rule of thumb of 12 pounds per gpm, which I think I found in some UK publication. I estimate volume of water at 100,000 gallons if that helps.

The standard rule for raceways is 50 pounds of trout per gpm.

You have three issues to deal with: Water temperature, oxygen, and nitrogen waste products. If you can keep water temps in the 55 to 65 F range during the hottest part of the summer you are good to go regarding temps. However you also need good oxygen levels so I try and aerate my well water before it enters the pond.

I used to use a packed column but don't believe it's necessary and now just dump the water into a small lined pit where it's directed to the trout pond or any other pond I may be filling or topping off. The plastic media would plug with iron deposits and was a real pain to clean with muriatic acid every year. I also run the water out of the pit underground downhill to an upturned PVC elbow to cause it to cascade out into the trout pond to also aerate the water.

I use a diffuser in the center deepest part of the pond but only run it at night when temps are above 75 F.

Your coldwater flow not only keeps temps down and oxygen levels up, by aeration, and due to coldwater able to hold more oxygen, it's also flushes out nitrogen waste products the fish give off though their gills and their feces. Trout are very sensitive to ammonia, nitrites, AND nitrates.

If you can spare around $20.00 for the book Small Scale Aquaculture by Steven VanGorder (available on Amazon), he has some good information on what you are asking in one of the chapters. He shows how to raise trout on just a few gallons per minute of groundwater flow.

True but if it's hard water it may not be so bad. I have a Canadian Ontario Ministry Trout Farming text where they routinely use copper products in hard water.

Esshup,

Thanks for the heads up, this really means a lot to me for the advise.

Actually, I was aware of the trout not being able to handle to much of the copper before applying. I thought real hard and worked through the "What If" scenario.

If I do nothing, the FA will consume the entire pond and we would no longer be able to feed nor fish. The temperature is rising and withing a couple of months, the trout would be at the temperature past suitable for life so I would lose the remaining trout.

With the FA covering most of the pond, the water is mostly clear underneath indicating, so I would assume, the FA consuming the nutrients that normally algae would be using for a bloom. With no algae bloom, less survival of the new spawn, less survival, maybe or possibly making an impact on forage for the bass. Remember, I have been having an algae bloom for 2-1/2 years straight & I am concerned that my forage to bass ratio may come to the equal point quicker than expected. I have just started harvesting the <7.75"CNBG & BG 2 months ago and have been catching 5" to 7" LMB, (3). My limited experience has me concerned that my LMB my have spawned late last year, Sept. Oct. time frame.

If I applied the cutrine, I could possibly knock down the FA bloom in short order and get my algae bloom going again, open water so we can fish, able to feed CNBG & BG post spawn and get their weight back up.

Down side to applying? I could lose my remaining 21 trout, if that many survived, which I would be losing within a couple of months anyway.

So, with this beginner thinking process, I narrowed down my best option matched to the overall good of this body of water according to what my desires are and push forward with the application of cutrine.

Now will be my time to figure out how can I once again introduce Rainbow trout this coming winter and avoid the nutrient overload.....

Sorry AB13 on taking over your thread....that was not my intension....

Couppe

PM sent.

All good- learning a lot

Here's a put and take trout from around here.



I believe some of Cecil's trout could probably eat this one for lunch.

I like to examine what these put and take trout have been eating. I have found power bait, sticks, rocks, and ants in their stomach. I once caught a nicer one that had a 4" chartreuse plastic lizard in his stomach. No hook or line. I guess someone threw it out and he ate it.

I want to say the one I caught only had a few bullhead minnows in his stomach. It was the fist time I fly fished and caught him....now my 16 year old is a fly fishing nut every chance he gets.....

As a taxidermist I've found some of those plastic baits in their stomaches that the trout couldn't pass. Recently mounted a close to 4 lb. brown that had a large swim bait in its stomach. The fish would have slowly starved to death.

It's too bad some of those green carp anglers aren't more careful.

Cecil Baird says for pellet trained bass he had up to 400 bass up to 6 lbs. in a .62 acre pond with no issues. The pond received fresh water input from an overflow of a small trout pond.

For conservative calculation let's say each bass averaged 2.5 lbs (16.5" Std Lgn-Wt) which calculates to 1612 lbs bass biomass. In reality the poundage was more like 2451 lb/ac since the average bass size was more like 3.8 to 4.0 lbs. I saw pictures of those bass at harvest.

Since AB13's 0.05 ac pond may not have well water in-flow, I will use 1600lb/acre as bass biomass weight. Thus AB13 could raise 80 lbs of pellet trained bass/fish in his 0.05ac pond. This assumes good aeration, attention to water quality issues, and an occasional small harvest fish harvest. Periodic harvest is very good management because it temporarily reduces standing crop (fish biomass) and allows the ecosystem to periodically "rest" by not being at full capacity ('biological metabolic speed').

The fish capacity could be comprised of 40 two lb bass or 20 4 lb bass, or some fish mixture consisting of about 50-80 lbs optimum weight. Note the 80 pound weight should not be maintained constantly due to potential water quality issues. Ideally and wisely one should be maintaining fewer fishes that are in the process of growing in good water quality toward the 60-80 pound pre-harvest weight rather than maintaining the 80+ lb weight as constant biomass. This concept is similar to farmers and ranchers growing animals as a crop. Maintain the herd with a mixture of various aged animals. New young ones, middle age ones and older ones that are harvested.

Said all of the above to repeat my earlier post and say, I think the AB13 could safely raise 10-20 LMB and/or HSB that are being fed pellets and actively growing in an aerated 0.05 ac pond. 20 fish weighting 3 lbs each is 60 pounds. Remember to periodically harvest a few and restock. You should not constantly run the ecosystem at full speed (capacity) or periodically the system fails i.e. fish kills.

Holy S$&@ thanks for all that- probably go with that type of plan then- really appreciate it!

Whatever you do please keep us advised about your progress. Others with small ponds will benefit and learn from your experiences. I hope your experiences are good ones. We can help with advice as your project proceeds. Take a bunch of pictures, keep records, and your story can be a welcome addition to the Mini-Pond section of Pond Boss Magazine.

Great advice Bill!

More questions for Cecil about those LMbass he grew on pellets. HOw long did you have them in the pond for them to grow to be 4 to 6 lbs??
Starting size of the pellet trained stockers?
Any other forage items in the pond for bass to eat besides pellets??
Do you have a picture of some of those bass for the thread? As I remember they looked like footballs with big mid sections and smaller heads and tails?

Cecil we are waiting for the answers to bills questions!!
Please don't keep us in suspense!

Cecil may be in Florida transferring his parents back to Indiana. Give him a day or two to catch up.

I'm baaaaaaaaaack!

Went from tropical temps to subarctic! WTH! If the eastern Pacific would just cool down about 8 degrees we could get rid of of this 's' curve in the Jet Stream that is bringing this polar air straight down to the midwest!

Bought the bass as 4 to 5 inch feed trained fingerlings from Laggis Fish Farms in Gobles, Michigan in the spring.

Fed them floating fish pellets in a cage at low density of 100 per 4X4X4 cage until the fall when they had reached 8 to 10 inches and were relased into the rest of the population of the .62 acre pond. They were kept in the cage until fall to get some size on them to keep them from being eaten by the larger bass in the pond. At 8 to 10 inches they were large enough not to become expensive predator fish food.

These are aproximate average ages and bass sizes. Keep in mind there are always a few smaller size bass and a few larger size bass. Males are smaller than female largemouth bass.

Spring Year 01 (March-April) Age ~ 9 to10 months. Size 4 to 5 inches placed in cage
Fall Year 01 (October) Age 16 months. Size 8 to 10 inches. Released from cage
Fall Year 02. (October) Age 2 years 4 months Size 14 to 15 inches 1.5 to 2.5 lbs.
Fall Year 03. (October) Age 3 years 4 months Size 16 to 18 inches 2.5 to 3.0 lbs.
Fall Year 04. (October) Age 4 years 4 months Size 17 to 19 inches 3 to 5 lbs. plus

The bass grew quite rapidly until they reached about 2.5 to 3 lbs. and then slowed down in growth. The rapidly growing fish exibited small heads and fins. As the fish slowed down in growth they showed more normal proportions. The younger fish were quite stocky with lots of internal fatty tissue. One 19 inch fish weighed just over 6 lbs.

I'm convinced many of the oldest fish went off the pellets. There was bluegill, yellow perch and largemouth reproduction to feed on. also saw a significant decrease in the number of the largest fish to to natural attrition as they weren't removed from the pond - at least not at first.

I'm convinced that pellet fed bass, although faster growing initially,have a shorter lifespan than their natural fed counterparts.

There may be some variation in growth rates and maximum size as I know a bass farmer in Missouri that produces lots of feed trained bass over 6 lbs. in his broodstock pond. I was also told the same by a central Indiana producer.







My bass were somewhat interbred judging by the triangular lower jaws in some of the bass.

Cecil thanks for the info!

What did you feed them? If LMB pellet from purina, was it hard to get them to switch from the smaller to the larger?