Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Big bass

What do you guys consider the right length for removing bass? As a guideline I've heard 12-15 inches.

get ready for it....................

It depends!

what are you trying to acheive with your pond and or Bass....

The experts will offer some suggestions.......

Well first off I know I have too many bass. So I need to get as many out as I can. Really I just want to have quality bass. I'm not trying to produce world record bass. I would much rather have quality over quantity. So removing bass and keeping ample forage is what I'm concerened about. But I have no clue as to what size bass need to removed.

Anything under about 14 inches. However, if you find one that is a little below that line but is in really good shape, I might keep it.

It's not the size, it's the weight. Look in the archives for the relative weight chart for LMB. If your LMB are stunted (under RW by a lot) then remove around 30# per surface acre this year of the LMB that are 15% - 20% (or more) underweight for their length. Wait a month or so after they've gone off the beds to get a more representative weight.

I would keep the size of bass that are your most abundant, 12-15" is a good guideline but removing some smaller and some larger might be required. As Bill Cody would say, "it depends..."

I found the chart. Thanks for the info guys. I'll post back what I find. Is this a pretty common problem?

More common than you realize. In my personal pond, I fight it constantly. C&R is nice, but LMB can overeat their food source pretty quickly. It takes approximately 10 pounds of fish to put one pound of weight on one LMB. That's why pond owners with LMB in their ponds need to stay on top of them and watch their condition.

I would consider any LMB under 8-9" in length as potential forage if larger LMB are present.

So do you over stock you baitfish? Or just try to keep them breeding good and protected?

Breeding good and fewer predators competing to eat the baitfish.

I'm working on both of those. Building structure for baitfish out of pallets and other things I can find.

What kind of forage base do you have?

Fat head minnows and BG. There's some other kind of perch as well. I don't think it's red ear. But the bass have put a hurtin on the BG. I want to stock tilapia after I get the bass under control. But at this point pretty much everything is just an idea until I get the bass under control.

The fathead minnows won't last, they are not very predator smart. I would concentrate on feeding your BG and improving spawning areas for the BG, pea gravel in shallow water works well.

I sort of inherited the same type pond. Bass heavy because no one has been fishing it. I took the advice of these great guys. Getting smaller bass out makes good sense. The less bass in the pond, the more food for the other bass. And its free and its fun.

But this is for what you want, bigger bass.

I think the experts that want really big bluegills say keep small bass in the pond.

Yeah I've gotten a lot of great ideas of spawning structure from here! Tons go good advice. It used to have black crappie but I haven't caught any in a good while. As far as forage for bass besides tilapia any ideas? After I get the bass under control obviously.

Lots of good ideas on here about bass forage. Golden shiners, crayfish, frogs, etc. Obviously your bass are eating bluegills. In a well balanced pond, just LMB and BGs, sometimes a bass can get up over 10 lbs, even in a small pond.

I have no clue about tilapia for LMB forage.

Srj79, What state are you talking about?

Texas, the reason I said tilapia is because I have read on here that they can help control FA. And reproduce a lot. It's a 1 acre pond.

Tilapia usually die out in the fall once water temperatures fall below a certain point. I believe it is in the range of 50-55 degrees F. Somehow one who has more experience can answer this better.

Tilapia also convert biomass into weight. They have a similar body shape to a bluegill. So adding them is making your pond more efficient essentially. They also take pressure off of the bluegill by giving the bass another food source.

I didn't realize they died off that easily. So what are people doing, just restocking every year?

if you want bigger bass, the only thing i might add to this is to start getting rid of male fish every year when the fish spawn. first, a male bass really never has much of a chance of reaching lunker status. 5-6 pounds is very big for a male fish as opposed to the possibility of 8-10+ for females. the males are just robbing forage that the females could be using for nourishment and growth. second, if you cut down on the number of males, there should be less reproduction which means less small fish that will eventually have to be harvested.

the prime time to cull males is during the spawn since the male is usually the one that plays a primary role in nest defense. living in TX though, your fish are probably already post-spawn. but next year, you might wanna catch as many males off beds as possible. just a thought. good luck.

That makes sense. What's the best way to tell them apart? Because I've heard tons of ways but have no idea if they hold up.

Yes. They see the advantages and willing to pay the cost.

generally the male will be the smaller of the pair on a nest. In many cases he may be the only fish on the nest. females generally hang around on the outskirts of the nest rather than on it unless they are actually "in the act" of spawning. the male will also be the most aggressive 9 times out of 10. usually if you fish a bed and get one to bite, it's going to be the male. however, bed fishing is an entirely different animal than "regular" fishing (particularly if you use artificial baits) and requires an ability to "read" a fish's body language and ultimately aggravate it into striking. it can be very frustrating until you figure out the game.

fortunately there is another great time to target the male bass and that is right after the spawn. the males will guard the fry for a few days when they hatch. if you find a fry cloud, chances are there is a male bass lurking nearby ready to pounce on anything that might be a threat to his youngsters. good luck.

Awesome! How could I improve the spawning area for bass?

lm bass are highly adaptable - they are going to figure out a way to spawn regardless of the terrain. however if we are talking preferences, they prefer to spawn on a relatively flat or gradually sloping (vs steep) terrain in anywhere from 1-4 ft. of water. many times, the clearer the water is, the deeper the beds will tend to be. nearby cover such as stumps, vegetation, or brushpiles can help. but i wouldn't sweat it too much. trust me, if you have bass in a pond, they're gonna find places to spawn.

if you are overpopulated with bass in a pond, then spawning habitat is definitely not a concern.

Drop a lively nightcrawler in the bed that is hooked under the collar and the LMB are much easier to catch.

Oh ok I gotcha. I went yesterday to have a look after work and didn't see any beds. But I managed to pull out 11 under 14" and caught two that were bigger and looked healthy.




IMG_2461.JPG

I don't think my picture worked. I caught about a 3" perch but don't know what kind it is. I'll try and fix it later. But it looked like a bluegill with the body of a bass.

i found something that says its a hybrid green perch. https://twitter.com/JAKEWRIGHTT/status/336851143336534017

That pic worked, I was going to guess a warmouth or some people call them redeyes. Until I saw the pic.

Since your pond is only 1 acre you should be able to put a serious dent in the bass population. I would do it as fast as possible.

I'm just guessing that in TX they are going to be spawning any minute now. I'm in southern Maryland and the bass in my pond have moved from the depths and are cruising right on the shore, but no signs on their fins of nest making yet. We had a very cold winter.

Hopefully I'll have a full day to fish Saturday. I figured that they already spawned but this weird weather we are having might mess it up. I don't really know. Didn't see any signs of it yesterday. They were pretty active though, anything I threw they were hitting.

jig&pig is right they will find a way to spawn if conditions are right. I have not had a LMB spawn in a couple of years but guess what I caught a couple of weeks ago? 2, 8 inch LMB so they must have had a spawn last year finally. And my pond is 1 acre as well so now I am trying to catch them buggers and get them out. Don't want or need another 100 or more LMB running around in my pond.

RC

They have spawned to much for me too! Is it true that a pond with stunted bass for an extended period the bass can't reach thier pontential max growth anymore? I read about it on here. Wondering if y'all have had the same problem I've had and say 4 or 5 years from now not seen big fish. Does it go into breeding, should I maybe stock fresh bass say 15" and bigger once it is thinned out? Or is it ok if I keep the numbers down. I'm full of questions, this forum opened up a whole new world!

I am going to say yes to your question. Depending on the time frame. If you correct your number the LMB will start to grow agian but they will never get real big if you will. For an example lets say you have a stunted pond of LMB at 13 inches. Say 300 of them in a 1 acre pond. If you caught and kept 150 of those the others would start to grow again, (given there is enough food still for the 150 left) but their growth rate v.s. their age is all messed up now. So instead of having your bass getting to 6 or 7 pounds they may now only get to 3 to 4 pounds maybe 5 if your lucky. Hope that makes since. Keep in mind I am no expert on all of this just telling you what I have read and seen in my pond.


RC

Sorry no expert here but I agree with RC...If its a pond full of stunted bass their genetics are that of stunted bass.

But even so, in an older pond there could be one or more big bass. They might be fat from eating everything in the pond that fits in their big mouth.

If you catch a fat healthy bass put it back in. You can use the RW charts to very accurate.

Oh yeah, they are done spawning there. The LMB around Dallas finished a week or so ago.

I would guess that in south TX they might spawn for several different months like they do in Fla.

I agree. Checking the pond again for spawning LMB right before the next full moon would be a good idea.

I'll have to check again, There are probably some still spawning. I'm removing as many as I can under 15" unless they are just rollin fat. Guess I'll be eating a lot of fish soon!

Has anyone stocked tilapia in central Texas? Did they survive the winter?

This^

Its probably the best thing you can do right now.

Its the first step. I am doing the same. Can't see stocking forage until the bass are under control. Or else you are just putting a quick snack in the pond for a hundred bass.

I don't plan on stocking anything this year or at least not till the end. I'm just searching for ideas. Tons of them on here.

I would like to ask for both of us, if you catch one over 15" even over 20" and it has a big head but looks skinny, should it be taken out, because it may never recover to trophy size? But I know right after the spawn females can lose serious weight.

Most guys will tell you to wait a month or so after spawn to start taking RW's and go from there. That give the female bass a chance to get back in the action. Now is really not a good time to be trying to size your fish because of the spawn. I would say if you caught one like that in the end of May and in June I would say you got a problem if it were 20 inches I would let it go and keep getting rid of the 12 to 15 inch range first. Give that 20 incher a chance to fill back out. But that just me.

RC

Absolutely. If you can see them, for sight fishing, a live nightcrawler dropped in the bed is deadly. We use to slay them like that, well until it became illegal.

Everything is becoming illegal. Next thing you know they are gonna tell me I can't throw dynamite in the river when I'm fishing.

Yea, believe it or not in my state, bass fishing is CLOSED for non tidal freshwater fishing from March 1st-June 15th. They simply do not want you fishing for bass during the spawn.

Does any other state even have such a closure on bass?

MSC,
Does that closure affect private waters?

Not that i've heard of. That sounds a little rediculous. I saw a pond yesterday that had a lot of cypress around it. Pretty dang cool! Might be something good to plant?

Yes. I contacted the director of fisheries of the state DNR and he said private ponds are still subject to the state laws. The only exception is if you get a permit to turn your pond into a public pay to fish pond. Then its a circus.

In the 50 some years that the pond has been here, only one time a game warden showed up. You cannot see this pond from the road only on maps.

To clear things up, catch and release is permitted during the closed season.

But that's not what I need to do.

MSC, we can do JUST about anything with our private ponds. We have to have a permit to stock Grass Carp. They get pretty paranoid about the private stocking of sterile fish. And, of course, we have to have a depradation permit to shoot cormorants. But we can fish 12 months of the year and do anything with our fish as long as it doesn't affect anyone downstream.

I have a Cormorant depredation permit. Have only seen a few of them high in the sky. Do they get a notice about the permit?

No. Once the greener pastures are populated, Bremer pond will look more inviting.

Have y'all ever stocked a pond with Shad?

Sure, I prefer threadfin but they are really tough to handle. Gizzards are better but get large enough to be an egg eating problem. All in all, I'm not wild about messing with them.

One thing you need to consider is the allowable biomass of a water hole. At some point, you can get too many fish and foul the water. When or if that occurs, you wind up with a dissolved oxygen shortage and a die off. The larger fish go first.

Srj79 - If you are interested in growing big bass and using shad,, I suggest that you buy the book 'Raising Trophy Bass'.
http://www.pondboss.com/store.asp?c=8

Using shad is discussed in that book. You could also Google search: Pond Boss shad and get quite a few threads about shad. Since you are in the south you could use either threadfin shad or gizzard shad. Learn the pros and cons of each for growing bass.

Two examples
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=310016

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=281599

This is probably a dumb question, but after reading everything I'm confused. Filamentous algae is bad right? Either way i want to get rid of it in my pond. But if a fertilize for an algae bloom wont that make FA worse?

In theory, no. If you fertilize, it helps to jump start a phytoplankton bloom that decreases the sunlight penetration that the algae needs.

However, I've seen the theory disproved too many times.

Ok I think I've got it. I got a little confused from reading so much different stuff.

SRJ79
While not in Central Texas I am about 2.5 hours Northeast of you in Nacogdoches and have been stocking Tilapia for the past 3 years. I have seen Tilapia in my pond as late as Christmas/New Years so we have a considerable growing season for Mozambique Tilapia compared to many other states. The Tilapia dieing off every winter is definitely a good quality not only to prevent over population but also they don't immediately die they sort of lose their faculties about them becoming easy prey for your LMB. This allows the bass to put on some serious weight just before winter. I also would not be nervous to go ahead and add them this year while you are lowering your bass population.

Since Tilapia stocking started here in Texas around the first of April you will mostly receive larger Tilapia that will be able to avoid predation by your bass and also able to immediately start producing little Tilapia. 2nd week of April a 5 lb bag of Tilapia would have approx. 35-40 fish where now a 5 lb bag only has 20-25 fish or at least that is the case from the grower I use. Overton Fisheries in Buffalo TX is only a little over an hour North of College Station and I'm sure Todd would be more then happy to fix you up.

If you want quality over quantity you have to do two things for sure and that's remove the amount of bass at the dinner table and increase (or at the very least keep it the same) the amount of food at the dinner table.

I've culled a good amount of bass. But I have no idea how many more or the size of the fish. Or the baitfish number. Has anyone done electroshocking? I know you can get someone to come do it for you but I'm sure there is a cost. Is there a less expensive one that I could buy or a better/different method to get a good idea of where my fish population is at?

There has been many who have done electroshocking.

Also, seining for fish surveys of what you got.

And catch records.

It's my understanding that they all are important tools to gain a broad view of what's in the pond.

Have you come across this thread with links:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255372#Post255372

recent Electroshocking thread
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post369590

Good articles. I've read about people using home made shockers. I wonder how well it works, or if I trust it or not.

You can get a very good idea of what your fish population is by keeping catch records.

Also seining is another inexpensive technique and the proper time of year to do it is right around the corner.

The homemade electro shocking devices I know about are (so I've always been told) more effective on catfish then bass and bluegill.

It just out of my budget to have someone come in and electroshock for me. I didn't know if maybe there was a net or trap you could use to catch a good amount of bass. Gonna give seining a try here soon. So far I have removed 32. And the bite has dropped off. I don't know what that means, if they aren't biting lures anymore( I'm going to try minnows). Maybe it has to do with post spawn? I'm looking to restock BG but it seems pointless if there are still tons of 13" bass swimming around. The water is clearing up, I assume due to all of the FA and weeds growing now?