Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water water clarity

I have noticed that my pond water stays murky at all times. My pond is 1 & 1/3 ac in size. I stocked 300 channels, 125 lg mouth, 10 lbs of fat heads, 200 red ears, and about 400 coppernose. This was done in Oct of 2004. My neighbor's pond (about 1/2 mile away)has clear water and is beautiful. He did not put in any cats. Do you think this is the cause of my muddy water? We have identical soil types. This is backed up by maps from the soil conservation office and personal inspection. It appears the channel spawned as I have some cats about 20 in long and some about 8 in long. Should I aggresively remove cats to improve the water? Thanks in advance.

Up north, we have seen decreased water quality with 100 cats or more per surface acre. Try the water sample in the glass jar trick to see if the sediment percipitates out. Removal sounds like the best option if this is the case.

Was your pond muddy before stocking?

We received a 8 in rain about 2 weeks after the pond was completed. Stocked about a month later. It was VERY muddy at first, then went to a white muddy color.

It may not be the CC. It may be suspended clay particles from the heavy rain. I would try the jar method to see if the water will clear up, if it does it may very well be the CC.

My experience is that with too many cats and too little food the cats will work in the sediments for food items. Cats are able to feed well in cloudy /silty water but other sight feeding fish do not usually get adequate amounts of food when water has visibility less than 15-20 inches. If your pond water does not settle out and become clear in the jar test then assume it is due too many catfish. If your LMB population is not abundant enough with good survival of bass spawns then the catfish reproduction / survival can become a problem with too many slow growing cats.

Thanks, I will take a sample of water in a jar today and see if it clears up. How long does it normally take to clear?

It depends on how tall jar is and or the height of the water column. It also depends on what size the suspended particles are. Ultra or very fine clay particles take a little longer to settle. If you use a quart jar it will take about 1-2 days and a gallon jar will take about 2-4 days to see a noticable difference in water clarity. It is often beneficial to collect a second sample when the first one has had a chance to settle and then compare the two jars of water. If materials in the water will settle out there should be a noticable difference in water clarity betwen the two jars.

Once it settles, and if it settles, you should see a thin layer of sediment - silt on the bottom of the jar. If it does not settle out and get clear then usually assume one of two things; 1. that the clay particles are electrically charged, constantly vibrating, and will not settle or 2. you have bacteria or algae in suspension and until they die they will remain in suspension.

With that many catfish in your pond I am betting that you will see a big difference in clarity after 1-2 days. Come back here and tell us how your settling test worked.

Thanks

I checked the water today(has been one week/pint jar). The water is still a cloudy white color. I can see my fingers(barely) on the opposite side of the jar. Should I try alum crystals or something similar? Will the alum cause any problems with fish kills etc.? Thanks.

Without microscopically examining the water, the first guess is suspended clay particles. It could be some forms of ultra small plankton that can impart a cloudiness. Typically alum or gypsum are used to help clear ponds. Do a test on the pint of cloudy water with either gypsum or alum. Amount of alum used to prevent a fish kill depends on the alkalinity of the water. I suggest you do a search for other topics about amounts to use for alum or gypsum to clear the water. I will look for a few posts to help you with this - see below.

Bob Lusk provided this about lime and gypsum-
Aglime does no harm, at all, in ponds. It may, or may not, solve your dilemma. One thing everyone needs to remember about lime is this...when you apply it, lime has a buffering affect on the water, like Rolaids. As lime is 'absorbed', its concentration decreases. So, additional lime is needed from time to time. Lime can only raise the pH to what the pH of the lime is, and that only happens when the water is reaching saturation. Lime can be effective for water clarity, depending why the water isn't clear. But, gypsum has a different chemical reaction in water, tending to flocculate suspended solids more quickly. When it comes to clearing muddy water, I lean much closer toward gypsum than lime. If the water is acidic, lime is the best answer, for buffering.

Here are some related links:

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000018#000006

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000041#000000

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000014#000000

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001127

DWR353,

Like Bill says it depends on your alkalinity if it can buffer a potential PH crash with alum. At the bottom of this post is a link to save you some searching. It explains how to do a small scale test to see how much you will need but more than you will need using either gypsum or alum.

Here's the deal with alum vs. gypsum. If your water is not hard and your alkalinity is low I would go with the gypsum. If your water is hard chances are the gypsum won't make much difference, and you should go with the alum. If you water is hard and your alkalinity is good you have a pretty good safety net with the alum and it will work better than the gypsum. However, make sure you prevent erosion, clay coming in etc. or you will be right back where you started.

Remember if you use either alum or gypsum I would contact your nearest chemical supplier in the yellow pages and not go through a middle man. It's a lot cheaper that way.

http://agfacts.tamu.edu/D11/Calhoun/Mar/Recfish/Pondmgt/mudpond.htm

Thanks for the posts.

A local ag store I spoke to sell a product that I believe he said was copper sulfate. Does any one have experience with this? They claim good results with other customers. As an aside, I caught several 18 to 20 in channels this weekend that were very healthy. I caught a large mouth yesterday afternoon that was about 10 in long. Do you think this is normal growth for bass stocked in oct 2004?(fingerlings). Should I put in more fatheads to help? Thanks

Update on pond. I put in 2800lbs of powdered gypsum. The water is much clearer than before. I can now see the cats when they rise for food. I took a water sample in a jar and it cleared completly in a day. The pond has visibility to just under 1 foot. I think further clearing is hampered by the cats in the pond. I will aggresively remove some cats and await the results.

DWR353, A 10" LMB that was stocked as a fingerling in fall of 2004 is not the best growth rate but it is okay or acceptable growth. The fish has more than doubled its size if it was 4" long when stocked.

I caught a couple of bass this weekend and they are very healthy looking. My bream have started to take on color since the water improved(they were white colored before) is this to be expected? I have recently started catching cc about 10 to 12in in length, so they are apparently spawning. My original stockers are now about 18 in long. Looks like fish fry time!

DWR353 :

BG coloration changes for a number of reasons including clear/cloudy water , amount of light/dark, spawning and stress among others. They can change colors and patterns quickly as in a few seconds.

Thanks.