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Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, Veterinary Services


APHIS to Lift Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia Federal Order


WASHINGTON, April 14, 2014—The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) is lifting the Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia (VHS) Federal Order that was first issued in 2006 in response to an outbreak of the fish disease in the Great Lakes region.
After studying the disease, conducting surveillance and evaluating the latest science, APHIS has determined it can safely remove the Federal Order as long as states maintain existing VHS regulations and other practices to reduce risk.
By removing the Federal Order, which has become duplicative with state regulations, we can still protect the health of farmed and wild fish while also supporting the interstate movement needs of the aquaculture industry. Beginning June 2, APHIS will no longer prohibit or restrict the interstate movement of VHS-susceptible species of live fish from VHS-affected or at-risk states, including: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. In addition, APHIS will no longer restrict the importation of the same species of live fish from Ontario and Quebec, Canada into the United States. However, this action does not affect the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s salmonid importation requirements as found in title 50 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Although APHIS will no longer regulate VHS, the Agency’s Veterinary Services program will continue to work with states and industry to promote sound biosecurity practices and share scientific updates regarding the disease.


What a crock.I'd be ashamed to be an employee of APHIS. The feds started it, causing hardship and great expense on fish farms, and will now wash their hands of their blunder with NO CHANGES AT THE STATE LEVEL. Meanwhile the testing will go on costing fish farmers in Great Lakes millions of dollars a year in testing fees for a disease that does not exist on fish farms and never will!

At the same time the real vectors, anglers moving fish in their live wells goes on because many don't even know what VHS is or that it's illegal to move fish from the Great Lakes to their ponds. There was a very poor attempt at angler education but expensive testing for a virus that does not exist on fish farms was not a problem.

*&^%$#@!

Sorry had to vent.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 06:25 AM.

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Cecil:

If states have in their regulations that "X" species should be tested in accordance to the Federal Blue Book, then wouldn't that mean that VHS testing was no longer needed? i.e. IIRC Michigan is one that says that. health certified by U.S.D.A./AFS blue book standards



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Originally Posted By: esshup
Cecil:

If states have in their regulations that "X" species should be tested in accordance to the Federal Blue Book, then wouldn't that mean that VHS testing was no longer needed? i.e. IIRC Michigan is one that says that. health certified by U.S.D.A./AFS blue book standards



Now Scott you're trying to make sense out of the government. It doesn't always work that way. wink And the people that make these decisions have no clue on what it's like to run a small business and make it work to keep food on the table. Remember APHIS shut down Great Lakes interstate fish sales for a year and didn't care who they hurt. Some farms went out of business. The federal employees checks kept coming in while they sat on their hands trying to figure out what to do.




Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/15/14 04:40 PM.

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Key words right here:
APHIS has determined it can safely remove the Federal Order as long as states maintain existing VHS regulations and other practices to reduce risk.

APHIS has this anchored in pretty deep, and doubt you will see the VHS requirements go away. They are also a major player in the contents of the Blue Book, and it has a section on VHS.

The "wild caught" baitfish industry is a different animal tho. They are just catching the fish and holding them for resale. If they test VHS free in MI, then they can get much higher prices. The fishermen will pay more because they can use the fish anyplace in the state, no restrictions, except for a time limit on possession.

Wild caught baitfish operations vastly outnumber the True Aquaculture facilities in MI, but they are a major player in this VHS stuff.

Most bait shops around here only sell FHM now. Not on the list, can use them anywhere, no gestapo papers and no time possession limits. Average retail price is 3 bucks/dozen, and you only get 12. Not 13, not 72, but 12!

A few wacky crisis plans have been initiated over the years at others expense wink Remember the concrete in the PM from yesterday.

Understand this tho. Some fish farms may use live feed at times for their reasons. They are not regulated on feed choices, but the major source of feeder fish "has" come from the wild caught wholesalers.

BTW, they are not lifting it, just backing away because they have it set pretty solid.


Last edited by JKB; 04/15/14 06:18 PM.
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In Michigan fatheads have to be tested if they are imported even though they are not on the susceptible species list. Not all Michigan fatheads are domestically produced or netted.

From the following source regarding Michigan.

http://southcenters.osu.edu/sites/southc...entsbystate.pdf



We require VHS testing on all fish, not just those on the USDA susceptible species list.We do require any fish to be stocked in public waters or imported bait to be tested for VHSv. The MI DNR only handles fish that will be stocked into public waters and the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development handles the aquaculture to aquaculture transfers of fish.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 08:27 AM.

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Originally Posted By: JKB


BTW, they are not lifting it, just backing away because they have it set pretty solid.



That was the whole point of my thread and why I'm not happy. Nothing has changed.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 08:26 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB


BTW, they are not lifting it, just backing away because they have it set pretty solid.



That was the whole point of my thread and why I'm not happy. Nothing has changed.


And, it won't change. It's embedded in too deep.

It's unfortunate for those who were underfunded, and just scraping by when this POS hit the fan.

I can appreciate both sides on this, but would favor the control side tho.

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I spoke yesterday with Randy Lang of IDNR and during our conversation was told the VHS provisions in Great Lakes States is being heavily scaled back, but that no final rule has been totally decided for the state level.

I also spent a while this week on the phone with Dr Frank, State appointed Vet and GOD for Michigan agriculture . Michigan has many, unpublished, departmental entry rules on fish entering the state. One of which is that all fish be currently tested, within the past 30 days, using AFS Blue Book guidelines for VHSv (and other "emergency" pathogens that the state Vet can declare at any time), and documentation must be submitted with destinations locations and qty's along with current health cert's for a pre-entry permit. You ALSO need an "interstate transport" health certification...a permit that seems not to exist This is just one of many reasons fish farms are avoiding Michigan entry....the rules change on a whim and are kept out of the public eye. Dr Frank also told me to call back in a couple weeks as all the rules will likely change.

I have no issue doing any health or VHSv tests, but since the tests are species specific, protocol and guideline do not exist for non susceptible species...therefor, it is impossible to comply with. Non susceptible fish can be given a test, but it is not technically in compliance with the AFS Blue Book protocals.

Last edited by Rainman; 04/17/14 08:34 PM.


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You ALSO need an "interstate transport" health certification...a permit that seems not to exist.

Sounds like government at it's best.


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Boy Rex, I think you have this all screwed up pretty bad!!

That's the reason for controls wink

Dr. Frank has been Dr. Barr for quite some time now, and is not the appointed VET for the State, and never has been!!

She is an administrator in these dealings, and always has been. Moving papers to the appropriate desk wink

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So what steps can I take to get fish in my pond if in state (in Michigan where I live) suppliers don't carry them, and out of state suppliers don't know the rules, the rules change, and probably do not like the uncertainty and risk? Is there any systematic way to 'change the system' or at least produce some reform that makes sense? Was Dr. Frank at least open to the idea that things could or should be more logical and less subject to change?

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I don't think you will ever see regulation changes for imports, so best to go with a supplier in state.

esshup was working on this a while back so he could supply and stock fish in MI ponds, as he has clients, but there were road blocks.

Have to ask him on what's up.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Boy Rex, I think you have this all screwed up pretty bad!!

That's the reason for controls wink

Dr. Frank has been Dr. Barr for quite some time now, and is not the appointed VET for the State!

She is an administrator in these dealings, and always has been. Moving papers to the appropriate desk wink


I was told I was being transferred to the State Vet for clarification on requirements. Dr Frank was the one that returned my call later that day. After learning there were at least 3 "extra" permits required, plus health certifications current to within 30 days, and the elusive "interstate transport permit". I said screw it, and scratched Michigan off my list of states to deliver to. Especially since the requirements ignored Due Process, take effect at any time, are not published and are completely arbitrary.

I will say, Dr. Frank was very pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful, even apologetic for her state. I stand corrected on her title and position.



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Originally Posted By: JKB


I can appreciate both sides on this, but would favor the control side tho.


Control of what!? mad How does testing for VHSv on farms control or protect anyone if it's not on the farms in the first place and can't make it's way there? That's the absurd part! And the fact that intrastate, no testing is required except for salmonids, tells one that this is not all based on good science and politics are involved. If it was it would have been based on watersheds.

Meanwhile anglers are moving potential VHSv fish around in their live wells and the Great Lakes ships keep bringing in new exotics and potential diseases in their ballast water. We are up to number 25 in exotics in the Great Lakes and still counting. It was only 18 not long ago. Did you know the Asian tape worm now exists in the Great Lakes? You know the one that grows and grows to incredible lengths in people's bowels in third world countries?

I had a customer tell me he was going to bring some smallmouth back from Lake Erie and plant them in his pond. When I told him it was illegal and that fish in the Great Lakes tested postive for VHSv in every major port (albeit with no clinical signs) he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. It might as well have been VHS vs. Beta we were talking about.

Aphis went right after the lowest hanging fruit the fish farms, and the education and enforcement of more likely vectors was almost nonexistent. All the anglers I know and have as customers have never even heard of VHSv. There should have been a sign at every boat ramp and the states should have taken the lead.


I haven't even told you others things I know as in how this whole ball got rolling. Let's just say there was an ulterior motive to gain an advantage over northern bait suppliers and that someone in NAA was a buddy to Dr. Eagre of APHIS. Dr. EAgre was convinced by this person that something had to be done! One reason I will never ever become a member of NAA. And this is not hearsay. They admitted they pushed for a federal order. They just probably won't admit they were coaxed by someone with an ulterior motive.

O.K. I'm off my soap box now. But I know or have talked to all the players in this cluster**** as past president of our state aquaculture, someone that has had testing done, transported fish interstate, raises fish for profit, or been in charge of arranging the transport of fish for an organization. I know this subject like the back of my hand and can tell you if was handled poorly and was a travesty.

APHIS is washing their hands of it just like Pontias Pilate did and ironically at about the same time of the year of the Christian calendar. Now it's all up to the states. And nothing will change.




Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/17/14 09:17 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: JKB
Boy Rex, I think you have this all screwed up pretty bad!!

That's the reason for controls wink

Dr. Frank has been Dr. Barr for quite some time now, and is not the appointed VET for the State!

She is an administrator in these dealings, and always has been. Moving papers to the appropriate desk wink


I was told I was being transferred to the State Vet for clarification on requirements. Dr Frank was the one that returned my call later that day. After learning there were at least 3 "extra" permits required, plus health certifications current to within 30 days, and the elusive "interstate transport permit". I said screw it, and scratched Michigan off my list of states to deliver to. Especially since the requirements ignored Due Process, take effect at any time, are not published and are completely arbitrary.

I will say, Dr. Frank was very pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful, even apologetic for her state. I stand corrected on her title and position.


Dr. Frank/Barr is a very nice person. I've had chat's with her on a couple occasions.

Maybe that PVC stunt at TJ's place is still haunting you! He remembers it wink

Don't complain about MI unless you live here.

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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: JKB
Boy Rex, I think you have this all screwed up pretty bad!!

That's the reason for controls wink

Dr. Frank has been Dr. Barr for quite some time now, and is not the appointed VET for the State!

She is an administrator in these dealings, and always has been. Moving papers to the appropriate desk wink


I was told I was being transferred to the State Vet for clarification on requirements. Dr Frank was the one that returned my call later that day. After learning there were at least 3 "extra" permits required, plus health certifications current to within 30 days, and the elusive "interstate transport permit". I said screw it, and scratched Michigan off my list of states to deliver to. Especially since the requirements ignored Due Process, take effect at any time, are not published and are completely arbitrary.

I will say, Dr. Frank was very pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful, even apologetic for her state. I stand corrected on her title and position.


Sounds par for the course in Michigan, Rex. Jones has written off Michigan too and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/17/14 09:25 PM.

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Originally Posted By: JKB

Don't complain about MI unless you live here.


I attended high school there, got my Fisheries degree there, and have lived there. I still have lots of friends there. I'll complain about Michigan whenever I want. grin


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You can rant all you want, but it won't change.

Get over it already!

If something changes on the upside, that's a plus.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB

Don't complain about MI unless you live here.


I attended high school there, got my Fisheries degree there, and have lived there. I still have lots of friends there. I'll complain about Michigan whenever I want. grin


MI is really not that bad. Ya just have to understand what's going on behind the scenes, which will blow a few fuses unless you are equipped with delay fuses, which won't blow until they can't take anymore.

MI is a tough cookie for outsiders tho.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
You can rant all you want, but it won't change.

Get over it already!



Look I don't know how to say this more diplomatically but here goes: That's easy for someone to say who doesn't put food on the table or pay his bills from the aquaculture industry. That order hurt a lot of people in the industry and even put some out of business. It's only natural that some of us rant.







Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/17/14 09:58 PM.

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Just remember what Bob said:

Welcome to the Pond Boss Forum. This is the place for sharing information about the enjoyment of private ponds in a fun, family like atmosphere.

All posts and discussions should be done as if you were talking to family or friends. Any post that appears to the management to be not in keeping with its standards will be be deleted and the maker banned from the Forum. This includes any post that could be seen as mean spirited or offensive and/or directed toward any individual(s) or any post with dirty words, or containing comments of a sexual, religious, racial or political nature or not deemed to be in "good taste". The use of any personal contact information such as E-mail address(s) or use of Private Messages must follow the same standards.

If you wouldn't say it to your Mother, don't say it to us.


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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB

Don't complain about MI unless you live here.


I attended high school there, got my Fisheries degree there, and have lived there. I still have lots of friends there. I'll complain about Michigan whenever I want. grin


Cecil, you are a politically motivated person who got off the wagon.

I really enjoy the peace of you never responding, replying, discussing stupid stuff...

All I can say is Dork, which is much better than the PM's.

Remember your meds, and don't forget to take them wink


I won't even respond to that. My post had no malice in it. It was meant to be funny hence the smiley face.


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I was told that if a private pond does not have a permanent inflow or outflow, then no stocking permit was needed. If a private pond DID have a permanent inflow or outflow, then the pond owner had to apply AND receive a stocking permit before any fish could be stocked.

So I guess us fish guys also have to be the police and ask to see the stocking permit before stocking the fish?

There's a HUGE difference between aquaculture rules and pond stocking rules. Aquaculture rules are much stricter.

I talked to a person who's boss is Dr. Barr. They kept trying to tell me that I needed to have my facilities here inspected. It finally took me asking her. O.K. So when will a person be available to inspect my facility? When she asked for the address and found out that it was in Indiana (like I was trying to tell her for the previous 1/2 hr) she said no inspection was needed because I was out of state. I swear, it was like talking to a brick wall.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Just remember what Bob said:

Welcome to the Pond Boss Forum. This is the place for sharing information about the enjoyment of private ponds in a fun, family like atmosphere.

All posts and discussions should be done as if you were talking to family or friends. Any post that appears to the management to be not in keeping with its standards will be be deleted and the maker banned from the Forum. This includes any post that could be seen as mean spirited or offensive and/or directed toward any individual(s) or any post with dirty words, or containing comments of a sexual, religious, racial or political nature or not deemed to be in "good taste". The use of any personal contact information such as E-mail address(s) or use of Private Messages must follow the same standards.

If you wouldn't say it to your Mother, don't say it to us.


I sure hope you're not referring to me Scott. I may have ranted on the VHSv thing that is a sore spot with me, and the way it was handled, but I didn't call anyone a name or tell them they to take their meds. And this isn't the first time I have been called a name by this particular person. And the guy even had the nerve to insult my father whom he has never met.

What about people that get banned from the site and come back under a different name? Why isn't anything done about that? Yeah JKB we know you were here as Phil before and got thrown off the site.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/17/14 10:10 PM.

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