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#371764 04/09/14 12:08 PM
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All:

Been getting several requests to perform another Grass Shrimp group order so I've reached out to Fattig to see if our original agreement is in place when Dale was still with us. I'll report whatever information I learn when they return my call.

If you are interested in a shrimp order here's the old arrangement:

Shrimp cost: $.25/ea
Shipping: Flat $35 next day anywhere in the US
Guarantee: We had a couple orders that sat at the front door for several hours in the heat and Dale was always good about refunding the order or sending replacements. I'll look into their current policy and report changes if any.

Shrimp require submerged aquatic vegetation to escape predation in ponds with current fish populations. For ponds with existing fish populations I would recommend higher stocking qtys - I personally went with 1,000/ac and was successful. Not sure how few one could get away with, just sharing my experience and I didn't want to blow the investment by stocking snacks. I now have a population that's self sustaining over the past 5 years.

For ponds without risk of predation I would recommend lower rates - maybe 100-250/ac.

If you are interested feel free to reach out via email please:
tj@hudlandmgmt.com

TJ


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Very tempting, when are you going to place an order?



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This Spring - say within a few weeks. Hows your population? Stocked 800-900 right?


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He He. The the cost of a rainbow trout right now!!

Wish I could order some!!


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TJ....would they make it in the Texas summer heat?

Are grass shrimp basically an additional forage base?

I have lots of coon-tail so I guess they could escape predation?


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Stocked 800-900 right?


Yep!

Quote:
Hows your population?


No idea but the milfoil I released them into was sparse last year and will likely be sparse this year. I never did see any last year but really didn't look for them.

Quote:
This Spring - say within a few weeks.


Dang, I might be out of town when they show up in a few weeks.



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Yo Z

These are Palaemonetes kadiakensis, or Mississippi Grass Shrimp, and I show them as native to the Mississippi river drainage all the way down into TX and the GOM.

We add them up here to help provide an additional forage source for our YOY and age 1 predators and RES, BG and YP. We treat them much in the same way as crayfish - but shrimp will spawn throughout the warmer water months unlike crayfish.

I love the little critters and, when I can successfully collect them which isn't often, I try to transport them to all my other ponds and client's fisheries. They feed on detritus and if stocked in enough initial numbers should establish a self sustaining population - one time investment.

Here's a link to an old study - but some of the information is pertinent to our species:
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/species_profiles/82_11-035.pdf


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Will they do well in a SW michigan pond that just saw ice out now? How long to wait for water to warm up? No fish now, but hoping to build forage, add RES possibly predator way later. Will they overwinter? I'd love to order some.

I have 1/3 acre pond give/take, 8' at high tide (high ground water mark) and am thinking that 75-100 would do or maybe that is overkill for an empty pond?

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.25 each... or 4 for $1

That seems high to me. Petsmart/petco ect has them for $1 dozen maybe 10 for a $1...

now I think they might be another species maybe Palaemonetes paludosus?

are Palaemonetes paludosus limited by northern climates?


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Another subspecies labeled as grass shrimp for $.50 each on a site that sells shark food...



http://sharksupply.com/cleaners.htm

Grass Shrimp (Palaemonetes pugio) PM
These will be shipped in tropical fish boxes with chill packs as needed to protect future shipments.

We are trying to be as cheap as possible, but, shipping on these kills us. The more you buy the better the price!30 Shrimp - $29.99 S&H Included

30 Shrimp $29.99
60 Shrimp - $34.99 S&H Included
120 Shrimp - $59.99 S&H Included
220 Shrimp - $74.99 S&H Included
330 Shrimp - $86.99 S&H Included

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Originally Posted By: BobbyRice
are Palaemonetes paludosus limited by northern climates?


I believe so as they are just found in southern climates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaemonetes_paludosus

Quote:
Palaemonetes paludosus is common in southern states east of the Appalachian Mountains. It is also found in Louisiana, where it may not be native, and there are scattered records from further west, in Texas and California.


The type TJ is getting are adapted too northern climates, they are raised here in Nebraska.

Quote:
Palaemonetes kadiakensis

Common name: Mississippi grass shrimp

Native Range: This shrimp ranges from northeastern Mexico, Mississippi River north to the Great Lakes and east to Florida. It is sporadic in the central US, west of the Allegheny Mountains, and from the Gulf of Mexico to Canada (Pennak 1989).





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When Travis and I first started looking for grass shrimp 5 years ago on the forum the best pricing for PK shrimp we could find was $1/ea from aquarium stores - kinda like the guys selling LCS for $6 each. Eventually Travis found Fattig and through high volume and multiple orders I managed to whittle down the pricing and get to know Dale's family pretty well as they are Nebraska folks, too.

I haven't found a source for PK Shrimp close to this pricing since - but there certainly might be one out there. Bottom line for me is I like doing business with small family owned companies who are fair and honest and I also get an opportunity to support a Pond Boss advertiser in the process. This is not only good for Bob and Mike, but also allows us to continue to enjoy resources like the free forum.


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THE ONLY SPECIES THAT WILL DO WELL IN PONDS OUTSIDE OF THE FAR SOUTH(think Florida and coastal areas up to southern SC) IS Palaemonetes kadiakensis. Or as we call them, PK shrimp.

Other species like Pugio can live in freshwater but need brackish water to spawn. Paludosus can live and reproduce in freshwater, but cannot tolerate winter temps where any ice over occurs.

Grass shrimp are in my opinion the most under utilized forage in ponds. They should be stocked in ponds just like FHM. In every pond right in the beginning! They turn detritus(rotting organic matter) into high quality fish food! I can think of NO downside to having them in a pond. Only positives... How can you go wrong? At $0.25 a piece and $35 shipping, you could purchase 200 for $85. That'll be the best $85 you spend on your pond! If you have a new pond and are just looking to stock it, these are a MUST in my opinion. If you have an established pond with areas of vegetation for the shrimp to take cover in, they're worth the investment as well.

I was down at my pond this evening and observed several grass shrimp cruising in the shallows. I was excited as this was the first time I had seen grass shrimp since the spring thaw. I can run a seine in the shallows in mid summer and when it comes up, it literally moves there are so many shrimp coming up. All those shrimp are pure fish food. YOY game fish feed on them, BG, YP, crappies... You name it, feeds on them. They make unbelievable bait as well.

TJ and I first bought our shrimp from Fattig after a lot of searching and work and we've had them since 2009. Fattig treated me right and every other person who has ordered from them, I've yet to hear a complaint. I know $0.25 per shrimp seems expensive but in a new pond, just 100-200 is all it would take to establish them. For a pond with an established fish community, as long as you had some areas of submerged aquatic vegetation, I think you can still get them established.

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Severral ponds around me a have a good population of Palaemonetes paludosus. I think I will start a netting and stocking campaign to see if I can get them to stick Or I might see if I can get a bulk order for a the price of a dinner out and save my time.

I agree and think Grass shrimp would add to the food web greatly.


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I have 6 acre pond, but can't buy 6,000 shrimp. I am planning on purchasing 1,400 shrimp and putting 1,000 in the shallow weedy area of my 6 acre pond and put 200 in two of my smaller ponds with no fish but lots of weeds. I was curious if TJ or anyone else has tried to raise in one pond and move to another? The weedy area in my large pond is about 1/3 acres with soft rush growing in it. Hopefully many of the shrimp will stay in that area and not venture out into the open water.

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I don't think you need to stock 6k shrimp - they are translucent and escape predation pretty well. If you spread out your stocking into several shallow weedy areas I think you have the best chance for success.

Yes, I transfer shrimp from my main pond to all my other ponds, and for friends when I can collect them. In my pond they only move shallow when the American and Sago pondweed gets dense. Until then I think they are either holding deep or dig into the FA along the bottom. I don't like collecting them in the FA as it's hard to remove them without a lot of messy effort and I fear I might be injuring them in the process.


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Some information on them that might be interesting to some.

Petshrimp.com discussion Talks about some caught in east central Kansas. Also has pictures and some feeding habit info.

Images for PK shrimp

An old PK thread on PBF

Found in Illinois

Another older PBF discussion on shrimp including PK

PBF thread from 2009

While reading this stuff, thought I would post the links in case others were interested.


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For 1/3 acre pond in SW MI I'd like to order 100-200. Who can I order through and how do I arrange payment?

also:

Will they do well in a SW michigan pond that just saw ice out now? How long to wait for water to warm up? No fish now, but hoping to build forage, add RES possibly predator way later. Will they overwinter? Over the weekend we had a 60 degree rain, now temps falling and 1" of snow on grass by morning, will melt later in the day and then back up to the 60s.

I have 1/3 acre pond give/take, 8' at high tide (high ground water mark) and am thinking that 75-100 would do or maybe that is overkill for an empty pond?

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
All:

If you are interested feel free to reach out via email please:
tj@hudlandmgmt.com

TJ


I delete my PMs routinely as I am beyond the forum's personal user capacity and I'll likely lose whatever information either of us convey via PM. Please email whatever questions you have to me at the address provided and I'll try to help in any manner I can.

Thanks



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TJ,

Just sent you an email...


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I've had my PK shrimp in two ponds since 2009. One pond is 1/10 of an acre and has no fish in it other than roughly 10 all male BG. The other pond is 0.34 acres, 7' deep. It's in northern VA. Since they were stocked, we've had lows down to -5 and ice cover in excess of 1 month. We've had summer temps over 105 and water temps that have pushed into the mid 90's. The PK shrimp have survived these conditions no issues... PK shrimp are native from the Great Lakes down to the Gulf of Mexico. So, there are few weather extremes they cannot handle. The larger pond I have them in has no vegetation. It does contain a large number of willows on about 1/3 of the shoreline with a lot of twisted roots, a fair amount of submerged woody structure and FA. It is a mostly mud/detritus bottom. However, I have a limited predatory fish population which is a factor in why the PK shrimp have done well in this pond without an submerged vegetation. I can tell you, that GSH, banded killifish and even FHM will readily prey on PK shrimp. I watch them gang up on a shrimp and literally tear it to pieces. I commonly see shrimp hopping out of the water to avoid being eaten. I regularly see shrimp eating Aquamax pellets that have floated to the shore. They will gladly clean up what the fish don't get. You really cannot go wrong in stocking PK shrimp in your ponds...

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Originally Posted By: BobbyRice
.25 each... or 4 for $1

That seems high to me. Petsmart/petco ect has them for $1 dozen maybe 10 for a $1...



I stand corrected. , Was at petsupermarket today.
they are now 10 for $2, with tax thats 21.5 cents each....

still are the southern type shrimp I believe....


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I got my PK shrimp today from Carol Fattig. All shrimp were alive and looking good. No photo's yet. It is sleeting and snowing here and 31 degrees. Hard to get to the ponds where I would like to release the shrimp so I put them in 50 gallon tank with pond water after equalizing the water temperatures. I have some 100 gallon tanks also so may try and grow out some of the shrimp in the tanks. Hope this current cold weather isn't to hard on them.

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Glad things worked out for you


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Worked out great. Thanks for lining everything up TJ. I owe you one.

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You are very welcome - I'm eager to help Dale's family with the business, and happy helping my PB family. Please let us know how things work out for you - you're gonna love these critters - they are awesome!


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Kudos to TJ for helping with this. I too got my shipment yesterday. Carol was great to deal with, sent me lots of good information about the lifecycle, eggs, habitat, hatching times, maturation times etc. Great communication, tracking numbers and the box arrived right on cue.

Nothing special is needed to acclimate them but I did give them some time in a bucket and slowly added pond water. They seemed to be happy so I put them in by my pallet structure. They headed for cover... A mix of larger and smaller ones, all active on arrival.

I have no predators except predatory bugs, water bugs? Hopefully some of the adults will get busy making babies soon.

I think I'm going to wait with my planned minnow stocking and see if I can allow the shrimp a head start. I'm told minnows will go after them if they don't have places to hide.

My kids were fascinated by the see through bodies and visible black eyes and 'spinal cord'.

I hope to order again!

Can they be used as bait on a tiny hook somehow? for what type of fish?

When I have more, will my kids find them in the shallows and will they be able to net them out? I imagine they would be fun to watch on an indoor aquarium as well.

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I'm from the deep south so my experience my be different...
I've caught just about any gamefish using grass shrimp we would "net" out of local bayous. Including, but not limited to: LMB, BG, RES, GS, warmouth bass, and garfish.


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Canyoncreek, We have the saltwater kind here that we catch, they can't live in freshwater. But they are excellent bait for yellow and white perch. They are commonly sold in bait stores here.


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The ones I stocked are very tiny, mostly 'gelatinous' and not sure how it would stay on a hook.

This picture shows size (not a very good closeup). They also call it a 'glass shrimp' maybe a typo?

http://www.enviro-analysts.com/about.html

Some call them 'ghost shrimp' Certainly eery to find how see through they are smile

technical name: Palaemonetes kadiakensis

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The females are the ones that get bigger, and top out at around 1.25". The males stay smaller. The females will get "berried". In about a month or so, you will see females with a glob of greenish brown eggs under her tail. You again see the females berried in late summer again. Grass shrimp make amazing bait for BG, RES, YP, crappies and just about any other panfish. I've caught bass over 4 pounds on them and catfish over 10. I've caught carp over 20 pounds on them. I simple slip flat set up and you're in business.

They do go by several common names. Grass, glass and ghost are all common names for them. There are several species of this type of shrimp in America. The one best suited to ponds are the PK shrimp though.

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I well remember using glass shrimp as bait on False River outside Baton Rouge, LA. Both coppernose and redear (we called them shellcracker) absolutely loved them! And yes, the occasional bass or catfish would eat them like candy, too.

They were sold in certain bait stores in Baton Rouge, typically in a container with damp mossy type material rather than in water. My dad remembers putting ice cubes at the bottom of a containers and then moss. The melting cubes kept the shrimp moist and cool even on the hottest days. He says the cool vapors rising from the ice seemed to keep the shrimp particularly lively.

I remember being puzzled at how an aquatic creature survived outside of water, but they did quite well.

Hope to begin building a pond soon in NE Texas. When I do, grass shrimp will definitely be on the list. They are fascinating and fun, especially for kids!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Yes when using the kind of grass shrimp we have for bait, they do better not in water. Sorta like crabs, keep them cool and damp but not in water. Wet marsh grass from where you caught them, in a small cooler works. Ice under a mesh screen is perfect.

You can put 2 or 3 on the same hook for bait also. I don't use them for bait in freshwater but I'm sure they would be great for BG's and RES. Come to think of it, I am going to catch some and try them on bedding BG's.


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Originally Posted By: joelleye
I got my PK shrimp today from Carol Fattig. All shrimp were alive and looking good. No photo's yet. It is sleeting and snowing here and 31 degrees. Hard to get to the ponds where I would like to release the shrimp so I put them in 50 gallon tank with pond water after equalizing the water temperatures. I have some 100 gallon tanks also so may try and grow out some of the shrimp in the tanks. Hope this current cold weather isn't to hard on them.


Mine are supposed to ship this Monday. I tarried a few days getting home from the last PBF get together in Texas and was not home so she held off the shipping date for me. Good to hear yours arrived in good shape.


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Can they ship to NY? Thought of collecting them myself, but don't want to introduce anything nasty into my pond.

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Yes, they ship to NY. Where would you collect them from? They are not native to your part of NY...

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Got the shrimp order Wednesday after lunch. Put the order of 400 in the <.1 (.065) mini forage pond.

Had grand plans of placing a few numerous places around the bank, save a few and put just a little in the big pond. Tempered the bag for about five minutes in the water. Took the rubber band off, and promptly dropped the open end.

Oh well, really intended for all of them in the forage pond anyway.

Checked on them the first night and also tonight. Surprisingly, they are not that hard to find around the shoreline. I found a couple dozen. Hopefully more are deeper or I just missed a bunch. The ones I saw seem to be doing fine.

Saw one 3" RES cruising around shallow. There are a few dozen FHM and probably about 40 2-3" RES in this pond. Been feeding the FHM twice a day in hopes they chow down on the pellets and not the PK shrimp. We will see.

This pond is about a foot above the main pond at full pool and overflows into the big pond. So hopefully if the PK shrimp do well either I can trap some and move to big pond, or maybe even with larger rain events some will naturally spill over into the other pond and get them started there.

But, just like the plan for placement of the PK shrimp from the bag................. the grand plans of men and mice. We will see how it goes.

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Got my order and was shocked at the $128 shipping charge! Doubt I would have ordered had I known it would be that high!

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Shipping live animals is very time sensitive and is never inexpensive. Plus they require special handling during shipment too.


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I kind of knew what to expect because had previously checked into having some tilipia shipped.

The shipping is definitely a problem. Be it delivery by FedX or be it by a truck that brings them to you. Costs a lot of money for labor and fuel to move time sensative stuff, cause it can't follow the normal shipping channels.

It would be nice to be able to always find a source locally for everything for pond stocking. Just not always the case.

If I can get mine established in my forage pond, it will be worth it. Then eventually if the numbers get big enough there, can transfer and get them established in the big pond. Otherwise they will be the most expensive fish food on a per pound basis I have ever bought. So I look at the ones I bought as breeder stock. A little different than someone buying them in a store for bait or pet food.


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I was just under the assumption that the shipping went up from $35 to $50 this year and when I talked to Carol Fattige she said it would be $80. When the shrimp arrived my bill was $128 for shipping, so I think I was justifiably surprised. Guess it's water under the bridge now and I'm glad to have the shrimp. I posted so others who may be ordering won't get the same surprise I did.

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Interesting article about how to find these shrimp in the wild and fish with them...

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=4253

I never heard of the corn meal trick, we just used ice cubes under damp moss or a screen.


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Decided to check and see if I still had any in my mini forage pond. Went out about 3 am. Found two. Netted one and saw one in about two inches of water, the latter one appeared to have eggs. Would have liked to have seen a lot more, but in all honesty I don't have very good habitat for them. Reading some of the thread from 2012, Cody says fine grass is the best and without good habitat they do not do well. I have mud and 2-3" limestone rocks, so not the habitat they need. I wish now they were in the main pond, because the FA there seems to harbor all kinds of critters and I wonder if the PK shrimp would have done better there.

At least I still have some alive, so maybe there is hope.

Oh, also as I was trapping half grown FHM out of the forage pond to put in my new sediment pond, I noticed there was a PK shrimp in the minnow trap. Let him go in the sediment pond. So maybe will get PK shrimp eventually established.


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I must have more than I thought I had. Left minnow trap over night and along with the FHM were three more PK shrimp. So I assume they must like the feed. They were full size and seemed alive and well.

Putting out a crawdad trap tonight. The mesh is big enough they may be able to go through it, but if I bait it about sundown and go out in a couple hours, maybe some will still be in it.

I think a person could make a trap similar to a crawdad trap, only smaller with smaller opening and out of screen wire or very small mesh wire.

U-Tube video on catching and using grass shrimp for bait

Last edited by snrub; 08/30/14 07:36 PM.

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Snrub,
The grass shrimp can and will stay hiden if they share the pond with predators(ie; RES). While grass is best, rocks will work also. Some uniodized salt and seashells (calcium) help as well.

Thought the shrimp and crawfish didn't survive in my 150gal rubber maid. Occassionally I'd find a pincher or tail shell. My big RES was spending hours cruising his tank nose down, while eating less and less of the delicasies tossed to him. When it came time to free him and clean the tank there were 200 - 300 grass shrimp and 100 - 200 crawfish, that I didn't know existed, hidden under 3 gallons of 3" rocks!! The water was 20" deep, clear, and I spent loads of time daily feeding, cleaning, rearranging, or just plain viewing the big boy in his tank. Don't be surprised if your shrimp are there, just hiding.

So, update us. The shrimp appear few, but are there. What about the other creatures in the pond?

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Grass shrimp are nocturnal and their eyes glow when hit by a beam of light. Shine a bright flashlight or spotlight in the shallows near cover at night...

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Thanks guys for the info. Good to hear they will use rocks for cover.

When I get a little time will start a thread on this very small forage pond and give an update of its status with pics.


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Here is the thread I promised of the forage pond.

snrub's mini forage pond with PK grass shrimp stocked in it.

Forage pond


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Wanted to add links to this thread which has several links to other threads concerning grass shrimp. That way if anyone runs across this thread, they can find out more about PK or grass shrimp by following this link.

Catching wild Fresh water shrimp/ grass shrimp


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Originally Posted By: joelleye
I got my PK shrimp today from Carol Fattig. All shrimp were alive and looking good. No photo's yet. It is sleeting and snowing here and 31 degrees. Hard to get to the ponds where I would like to release the shrimp so I put them in 50 gallon tank with pond water after equalizing the water temperatures. I have some 100 gallon tanks also so may try and grow out some of the shrimp in the tanks. Hope this current cold weather isn't to hard on them.


Joelleye, I'm really interested in how your shrimp are doing. Did you keep some in the 100 gallon tank? Did they do well inside in the tank? How about the ones in the pond? Do you ever see them? Where do you see them? Do you trap or capture them somehow? That always is a tough job and any tips is appreciated. Do you think they are self-sustaining or at least reproducing now?

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TJ how are the shrimp doing? Are you guys still selling them?


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Do my best to help guys whenever possible. Feel free to PM me anytime.


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Haven't been on here since probably 2009. Not sure how to PM you .


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Go to "My Stuff" at top, then hit Messages. And keep in mind that PK (ghost, grass) shrimp flourish best with chara.


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