Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Lake Chubsuckers Available

LCS are very different from creek chubs. LCS are very capable of spawning in ponds. Both creek chubs and white suckers can live in ponds with no issues. The problem is just like the creek chub, the white sucker needs moving water to spawn. Many lakes have large white sucker populations. Those white sucker ascend feeder creeks/rivers and spawn in them and then come back into the lake. As TJ mentioned, white suckers can also get very large. Not as ideal as LCS.

LCS can get fairly large, 12"-14", but it takes 5+ years for them to get to that size. If I had a pond that was predator free and I was building a food chain, LCS would be high on my list to acquire. I would be willing to wait an extra year before stocking predators to ensure the LCS I stocked were large enough to avoid predation. By giving this extra year, you can also stock other non-conventional species of forage such as spotfin shiners, bluntnose minnows and banded killifish in lower numbers and allow them to spawn for a year not being preyed on to build their numbers. This would also allow your grass shrimp and crayfish to build their numbers. Giving up one year to allow your forage numbers to explode would in the long run mean your predators would reach larger sizes faster.

Patience is a virtue, even in pond management.

I agree with this advice above 100%.

I'm a little confused about the info shared by Bill Cody that says LCS makes great forage as long as BG are not wanted in the pond. I plan to stock RES in my pond, would their be an issue with stocking LCS with them?

Also, I want to say thanks to CJ for sharing this link. The timing for my pond couldn't be any better as I am just getting ready to begin building my forage base for SMB. LCS sounds like a perfect fit for a SMB pond!

The addition of these fish into the pond has got me looking at not stocking SMB and YP until the fall of 2015 instead of 2014. I was able to get a few larger 3-4" LCS and several in the 1-2" range (30 fish total) so I'm hopeful the 8-10 larger fish will pull off a spawn next spring. This should put them well on their way to becoming established.

Any of you IN guys try LCS in your ponds yet?

Where did you get your LCS from?

No, RES are not the same as BG management wise and stocking RES with LCS wouldn't be an issue.

RAH, getting them from Zimmermans. Not sure they have any left though as it sounded like he was pretty limited on his numbers.

Thanks CJ, I assume that they aren't good with the BG because of the fact that both species reproduce at pretty astounding rates?

CJ, do you think that these LCS will reproduce next spring for me in the pond? Brian said that the 3-4" fish are old enough now to reproduce now, but probably wouldn't because they've been in his tank and not in the pond. From what I've heard from you and Bill the LCS need to be 2-3 yrs old to reproduce. Is it realistic to plan to stock bass in the fall of 2015?

Hi,
Western vs Eastern killfish and why one vs the other for my SW Michigan pond?

Canyon, you want to select the one that is native to your area. Sorry I cant help you with that, but I'd guess Western...

I think that I will hold off on the LCS. I did not realize that I could not order them online. I was hoping to take advantage of the cooler weather this week for shipping, but without the ability to get hem ordered this weekend in time to ship this week, I do not want to risk it.

If they have any left over I'm sure he could ship them out to you in the morning when mine go out... I don't think the temps are going to get too warm anytime soon.

I do not have a PayPal account and it will take time for a check to arrive. No credit cards are accepted. The web site says they ship after being paid, which is fair enough, but takes time.

You don't need a paypal account, You can simply just make a payment with out creating an account.

I am now wondering how small a pond, and what dimensions might be a minimum to build LCS forage pond. Perhaps I could team up with a hatchery and sell some of these since they are so hard to source. I have an artesian well that I might supply water to it if it is small.

It would be great RAH if there were sources that included larger numbers, whether another assisted in shipping or provided zimmerman's business with a ready supply...

I sent an email but no response. I hope that isn't bad news about supply...

There are a few variables that can make a smaller pond better/worse, but I am looking to do the same thing as you are and am shooting for a 70x70 (ish) size forage pond.

I am looking at much smaller to save on excavation costs. In the location near the artesian well, all the soil would need to be excavated. I was hoping that 30' by 30' with a max depth of 8' might work, but I want to keep the slopes gradual near shore for safety. Maybe someone will volunteer to dig it:) I need to put a new roof and furnace in this year. The rate of shingle loss has escalated!

Eastern and western banded killifish are the same species, just different subspecies. The western appears to be a little less hardy and affected by water quality issues. I however have little experience with it. The eastern I have extensive experience with and can say they are very adaptable and hardy. I've collected them in swampy back waters, to crystal clear mountain lakes to turbid tidal creeks.

The eastern has been spread into areas of the Midwest. How much the two subspecies have hybridized is uncertain. It does appear the eastern subspecies tends to out compete the western, so I would not stock the eastern in an area where it is not native or at a minimum already introduced.

I wanted to circle back and share Brian Zimmerman's reply. He sent a great email and asked me to feel free to share it. Hopefully others who are interested and have the skills to do so will start raising some of these species of minnows. He gives several good suggestions but I'm not aware of any way to source many of them that he suggests. I may simply use my pond to raise these minnows if I could learn more about how to do it, and learn how to get set up to keep them all separate, feed them, ship them etc. I bet the learning curve is quite steep and long...

From Brian:

Nope none left at this time. Seems there has been some talk about my fish lately and I sold out of those two species real fast. I do think your pond is ideal for these two. You could also potentially add several species of minnows. Fathead Minnows would probably work for a while but are unlikely to persist long term there are better choices. Also definitely do not stock eastern banded killifish in your area they are invasive and probably illegal in your area. I will have more of both western banded killifish and lake chubsuckers by mid to late July and could sell you some then. You are correct that you should not need a large number of them to get them going in a fishless pond. Other fish you should consider would be blacknose shiner, blackchin shiner, and golden shiner. You could also stock Iowa Darter, Least Darter, and Central Mudminnow. If you would like a small predator your pond would also be suitable for Grass Pickerel if you do not plan to stock bass, they do not compete well with bass. If your just trying to grow some big redears then having a diverse forage base and a small predator to keep the number of young sunfish low that will help the redears not get too abundant and get large. I would also consider looking into getting ghost shrimp, also native to natural lakes and wetlands in MI. If you want other sunfish species maybe consider Northern Longear Sunfish or Warmouth Sunfish.

Pass this info along to others on the pond boss forum...

I'm sorry I don't have much right now but I do this as a hobby on 1 acre of land in a dozen little rubber lined ponds so I can only produce so much each year. Check back in July or August and I should be able to help you with small groups of fish to get things going. I am happy to provide fish to stock in ponds that are native to your area. I'm also happy to give advice as to what species might work in your situation and pond. I have limited experience with stocking ponds but I have a great deal of knowledge of what habitat and spawning requirements and native distribution is for a wide variety of non-game fish. I enjoy working with people who want to think outside the box for fish stocking in private ponds and have a new or empty pond to start from.

thanks

What do folks know about grass pickerel in ponds?

Brian Zimmerman was a pleasure to work with through my purchase of LCS and WKF. He's Very knowledgeable and didn't hesitate to help with any and all questions. I haven't received my fish yet, but I'm confident that he will deliver exactly what he promises with them.

Arent they the same thing as Chain Pickerel?

Nope.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-grass-pickerel-wisconsin-s-forgotten-gamefish

O.K. I see 3 different species of pickerel.

Grass

Redfin

Chain

But searching fishbase, they have the same information for both the grass and redfin pickerels. Even the same picture. Another place said grass pickerel don't get larger than 9" while redfin are supposed to reach 15.5 inches, while chain pickerel could reach up to 30".

But, with any of the pickerels, where to source them for a pond? How well would they do in a pond with any typd of Bass, given their fusiform shape?

I always thought a chain pickerel x musky hybrid would be sportfish that might work for more southern waters.

I think the smaller pickerel would be great BG management devices in cool water species ponds - a pickerel that maxed out at 15" would be perfect for those 4" BG I think.