Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Building a dam on small creek-- advice needed

Dear Pond Boss Guru's:

I am a recent subscriber and long time forum reader.

I'm planning to build a dam on a seasonal stream that runs through my property. Annual run-off ranges from 3 GPM (or nothing!) in the dry season to 300 GPM during the spring (drainage). its in the middle of my parcel on a small hill I own (about 140 acres).

My plan is to place a ~60 ft long by 10 ft tall dam across a constriction in the valley, impounding a 250,000 gallons or so.

My goal is to build a stock pond, but also to provide water storage for my home hydroelectric system. (net head: 52 PSI).

So I could use some advice! I've included pictures as I gather this is helpful from reading other posts....

1) I have great clay as I dig into my hillside, but I hit bedrock very soon in most places: Should I core down to the bedrock and then build up, or should I dredge the rest of the impoundment and pack clay or is it possible that the bedrock is non-porous? I assume it is as the water naturally "rises" out of the valley at the point, but it could still be traveling underneath if I add a lot of head to it.

2) How do I get clear if this is a 404 exemption?; as a stock pond it sounds like it would be exempt, but in reading the recent rulings and other case law it seems pretty un-clear if anything is really exempt. Do you think this would be easily permitted?

3) Would this be best suited to a bull dozer or excavator? I expect I will need to dig clay from the sides of the valley to build the dam, which seems like an excavator task. Since I won't be moving a lot of dirt a long ways, it seems like a good choice (and I like running them). But is this best suited to a bull dozer?

4) Can I compact the dam using a mechanical compactor (vs sheeps ft?)

5) whats the best way to provide a silt clean out? I was thinking a concrete channel through the dam w/ wood boards, or a large diameter pipe w/ cap. ( i plan to add a separate 4" pvc pipe through dam for the hydro)

5) any other thoughts, advice, words of caution?

Thanks!

RockMtFarmVT

Picture (didn't load before...)

Welcome to the forum. I know that the regulations are different for every state. First off, is it O.K. to dam the creek? I know, I know................ But I have to ask because I don't know.

Good question!

As far as I can tell:
1) it is not a listed wetland
2) it is not a protected water way
3) I own the entire creek (From start to discharge into next waterway)

I think (but looking for advice on this) that I only need to address the 404 permitting w/ the core of engineers. But its not really clear.

Thoughts??

Make sure or you could be in hot water.

Welcome to the forum, Rock Mtn! Boy owning 140 acres in beautiful Vermont sounds like a dream come true.

Like everyone else suggests, I'd research legislation regarding damming up a creek, seasonal or not. In NE it requires a permit that is not typically awarded - however we are much dryer than you and also have heavy water use due to our agriculture - so your restrictions could be much more lenient. Definitely do your homework and keep us in the loop. Also - I'd love to see some photos of your place and the proposed pond site. Vermont has a special place in my heart - can't wait to get back to visit.

Before asking the State of VT, if it's OK, I would look around for other land owners who may have done it and ask them. Of course, regulations can be more recent than their impoundments.

Generally, you can't block navigable water or cut off neighbors from water.

Rock is always spooky stuff in dam building. If it's solid, you might be OK.

My personal belief is that there is nothing that works nearly as well as a sheepsfoot roller.

I had a dam put in a ravine last year. They hit solid rock fairly soon. They said it all depends on what the rock is. They said they would never leave bare bedrock if it were limestone as all your water would just drain out the fissures. Mine was soapstone.. beautiful stuff actually. One side of the ravine is down to bare rock up to above full pool in order to maximize area. I don't walk there when it's damp as you'd be in the drink immediately.

At the dam, they cut all the way down to solid rock across the width. ..then built the keyway up from there. It is solid and holding water with no clay compacted into the bottom. So in answer to your question 1.. maybe, depending on what bedrock.

Thanks for the feedback, all.

DN: good to hear re: your ravine; I'm pretty sure we don't have limestone here, but also not soap stone.. will keep investigating. How many ft^3 did you end up storing? just capturing run off?

Folks, what agencies do you recommend I contact RE: stream permitting-- DEC type offices? Has any one built a stock pond this way?

I didn't see it mentioned above, but I'd start with the regional NRCS office. Here is a link to their site: NRCS - Vermont

They can provide a lot of guidance and assistance.

Ken

My pond is ~1 ac triangular. The ravine is fairly steep. The dam is ~19' tall and when full pool, it's 15' deep at the dam and going to zilch up the ravine. It drains only 10ac, but water comes out of the ground all over the slopes. You can see some pics and the tale of the construction in the "New pond in the holler" thread here.

It was completed the first week of October. That next weekend, there was a ~3-4" rain and it put the first 7'+ of water in it. By mid Dec, there was only 3 1/2' to full pool. We got a 5" weekend rain and it filled and blew out the 12" dia overflow pipe. This last Fri night, it rained 3/4". I have a 2" drain line thru the bottom of the dam. It was open all weekend, and the water level never dropped. There is that much runoff water coming in... and part of the year the ravine is bone dry

I think I ready your thread earlier when I was doing some research-- one of my inspirations! Did you get your drain pipe issue sorted out? I'm guessing you didn't have any stream to deal with, so no permitting necessary.

I did check with local DEC, and the only potential permit i'm still trying to figure out is the 404 (core of engineers).

Has anyone reading this had to deal with the core on this type of project?