Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New Possibilities

I have recently purchased 80 acres of somewhat raw land. The property has a a large sloping native grass opening in the back. Thick woods to the west and a run off "seasonal " creek they flows form west to east. I am wanting to put a pond in the open area. The pond would hopefully one day be filled with LMB and all of the food chain that goes with that. I am struggling with the contractor/DIY question. I have read a post that was very similar but just can't pull the trigger. I would get a lot of satisfaction out of doing it myself but I am not trying to waste money...ideas?

Welcome to the forum!

Before turning over the first shovelful of soil, I'd recommend (in addition to typing your fingers raw here) getting the book "Perfect Pond" from the pond boss store. It has a LOT of reference info in it.

How much experience do you have in using heavy equipment? How big of a pond do you want to build? If you don't own, or can't beg/borrow the equipment, is there a rental place nearby?

I have been operating tractors for as long as I can remember around the farm. I have no experience on a dozer.... I'm thinking the pond will be around 1/2- 2/3 of an acre. The rental place said 40hrs on the machine and delivery/ pick up would be around $1700 + diesel. I am thinking I will use the dozer for the rough digging and outlining and use our tractors (2miles away) for the finishing and clean up. How practical is that timeline though? I'm worried I will be in a little over my head but can't stomach forking over 10k for a hole in the ground.

I bought my d6c for 10000 I cleared my land of stumps and decide to build my pond myself im just a rookie the d6c was my first time to its a learning experience for sure but a good one the company's I called. I told them tomuch so i bought the dozer. they told me 25000 to 35000 for clearing the land. I finished the land clearing 2 years did it for about 15000 ten for dozer 5 for fuel and brake downs so I did it for less than half than I decided to build my pond called some companys. They told me 10 to 15000. I did it for 4500 and still have the dozer if u got alot of work u might be better off buying a used old dozer to learn on and to work on the farm with u could do work for neighbours too to help cost might be an idea to think about

I'm guessing that is a pretty small dozer for around $40 per hour. Do you know the model?

If it is a small one, a larger one at twice the price might get the job done cheaper.

If your time is not worth much (retired) and you have ran tractors most of your life, you can learn to operate a dozer. Thing of it is, it will take you at least the time to build the pond to gain any kind of proficiency. So if you are wanting to learn to run a dozer, pushing dirt is a lot easier way to learn than some other work that dozers do. But from strictly a cost standpoint, a proficient operator can probably do the job in enough less hours to make hiring the dozer work done by the hour less expensive. And when you are hiring someone to bring in their dozer, the labor costs the same if they are operating a small tractor or large tractor (within reason dozer sized for the job).

When someone contracts to build a pond (or anything else) they have to build in some cushion for unexpected things they might run into. If you hire someone by the hour, they will likely give you a figure that is competitive with going rates. So if you are willing to take on the risk of cost over runs should something unexpected turns up, hiring a good operator by the hour could be cheaper than getting a turn key job bid. Also if you are in control of the hours operated, you can determine when you want the dozer to stop and what part of the job you want to finish up with farm equipment. Finish work can take a lot of time.

If you are fortunate to have the subsoil that does not need to be compacted, leaving the bottom of the pond rougher is much better than smoother. A lot of operators like to leave a professional appearance when they leave. A pond bottom smooth as a baby's but is not desirable from a fish point of view. If a person has to line with compacted clay or something like that, then it is a lot harder to not finish the bowl. But you can save some dozer hours and make the fish happier if the bottom of the pond is left rough. The rougher the better. With cuts and dips and humps even better yet.

Just some thoughts.

Another thing, seek some professional help. Either the local NRCS guy or someone who is familiar with building ponds in your area (might or might not be a local dozer contractor).

If you do not know what you are getting into with your soils and subsoil, you might end up with a leaky mud puddle.

In my immediate area, our soils are pretty forgiving of pond builders. But get in other areas that have sandy soils or other challenges, and pond building is a lot more complicated than making the bowl and pushing up the dam. The bigger a pond and dam get, the more critical things get, but the size you are looking at should be pretty modest in those terms.

Do a search for leaky ponds on this forum and there are no shortage of ponds that were built, leak like a sieve, and very unhappy pond owners that end up spending a lot of time and money to fix the problem. As esshup would tell me, do it right the first time. Just be sure what your are getting into before you start. Your pond building might be straight forward and relatively easy that about any farmer of years could do, to something much more complicated like needing compacted clay liners, plastic liners, etc. My NRCS guy was very helpful in giving us some options of a plan and laying out the pond site for us, as well as helping me avoid common pitfalls.

We did our own pond, but I had construction friends for advice and a couple employees that had run construction equipment and one that was involved in building several ponds. Plus I had built and cleaned out a couple ponds many, many years ago with an old cable dozer I had owned back then.

I'll add in that if you need to haul the dirt, it doubles the work and equipment needed, which means more dollars. You might not be able to do it with just a dozer, but if you can figure it that way it will save you a lot.

I did it myself, thinking the same way that I did not want to spend the money. Bought the equipment used, did it for the same amount, or possibly less than quotes... but I did more than what I would have gotten from hiring. I usually find doing it myself cost the same as the quote. I start off planning on saving money by doing it myself, then I get involved and start having fun and go overboard with ideas and wishes. It costs the same, but I like the end result better because of the details.

Only if you have great soil will the dozer be enough equipment. If the soil needs compaction to hold water (which is usually the case) then you can use the tractors to pull a pan scraper or possibly a sheepsfoot roller to compact the soils. If the tractors are large enough, you might be able to substitute a pan scraper for the dozer and dig the pond with the pan scraper. Especially if you have to move the dirt any distance. If you run into big rocks, then it's time for more equipment.

The problem with digging a pond is that you really don't know what's under the ground until you get the topsoil removed and actually see what's there.

If you don't get it right the first time, expect to spend right around the same amount of money that you spent digging the pond to fix a leaking pond.

Slopes on the sides no steeper than 3:1. Get as much depth as you can as a "savings account" for a dry spell.

Hitting the NRCS is a great idea.

To seal a pond, plan on making a layer of clay in the bottom a total of 18"-24" thick, and compacting it in 6" lifts. Dry clay won't pack well, neither will clay that has too much water content.

Many guys can move dirt, a few can dig ponds that hold water. When you are getting a good pond builder, you aren't just getting a guy on a piece of equipment, you are paying for the knowledge that he has to properly dig a pond too.

So true, and to do it yourself you need to learn all this stuff ahead of time.

I had begun mine before finding PB. I was looking all around for advice before starting, without luck. You have already begun your pond adventure way ahead of most people by finding this site. For you and any newbie that might be reading this, I can't stress enough the importance of patience and doing research thru this site. The more you know about structure, habitat, types of fish you eventually want, soils, dams, water discharge systems, etc, etc, the better off you will be when your in the process of actually doing it. Even if you eventually hire it out, you'll know more about what is right/wrong and the quality of work they are giving you.

"You dig a hole but you build a pond". Building in that you manage and manipulate the dirt/soil/clay so it will effectively hold water. This is a whole lot different than digging a hole. Do some homework here and you will find there are a lot of people that have leaker ponds and many of them were built by very reputable equipment operators.

No kidding???????

Our pond took on a life of its own after it got started. Wife thought the shore line looked too plain, wanted some "character". So added three curves/coves that were not in the original plan. Fish structure? Don't get me started. Nice place to walk would be nice so don't get feet wet or make 4 wheeler tracks. Tons and tons of rock. Don't want an eroded shoreline. More tons of rock. And the list goes on. No friggin way could I have planned out what we ended up with or afforded to pay a contractor (ok, ok, I probably spent nearly as much money in the end, but when it goes out more metered we don't have to admit how much it really cost and get the shock of a single big check to write. Let's just say my Diesel bill and lime bill was "up" a little for the year. I actually have no clue what it cost me and don't plan on figuring it out. The bills are still getting paid, and that is what is important).

I would say if a person wants to "do it yourself" DIY project, the very last good reason is to save money. For me it was the learning process that I always enjoy. After driving a tractor round and round for 40 years it finally got old, even though it has been what I loved and knew I wanted to do since 5th grade. The pond gave me something new to learn. To experiment with. Same with the fish. It is the learning process, not the fishing that holds most of my interest. Maybe in a couple years will need to have a PBF get together so I can get rid of some of the things.

I would whole heartedly agree fish n chips, that what I ended up with was vastly better than if wife and I had sat down, made a plan we could stick with, and told a contractor to do it. My pond would not be nearly as nice as it is because the dream expanded as it went along.

So if the last reason to DIY is to save money, I would say the best reason is if you like learning, if it does not bother you making some mistakes, if you will not loose a lot of sleep over those mistakes, and if when things turn out to be a way more work than you expected you buck up to the challenge and enjoy it instead of wishing you never started.

That would be the only way I could ever suggest someone build a pond themselves. They also need to be able to accurately evaluate their own learning ability and skills level. Some people........... make that a LOT of people, should never attempt it. But farming and operating equipment for most of a persons life is a good set of skills to start out with.

Do it because you want to do it, not to save money.

esshup: Dry clay won't pack well

That is one of the things we learned by using the contacts we had with pond builders and contractors in the area. We had just been through a VERY dry period and they as well as the NRCS guy said don't even start till you get some moisture. We waited.

If a timetable has to be kept, there's always the water truck route......

This link takes you to the thread that tells how I save on renting equipment.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post323674

I think it is best that you get someone who knows what they are doing to build the pond otherwise it may leak and you would be wasting more money than you wanted to originally.

Wow- thanks everyone for all of the input! That's exactly what I am looking for. I have contacted the local NRCS rep and have set up a meeting with him. I am not sure what the next steps will be if I go that route. Does anyone have any tips/ advice on dealing with them? The rep briefly mentioned the deadlines for financial assistance- what are some if the liabilities if you go through them?

On the other hand- I am still thinking of renting a dozer for a week and starting at the fence and working on clearing done of the cedars and cleaning up the place. Hopefully that will give me a better idea of my ability in the machine. I guess the bottom line is I can't talk myself out of playing on one of them...

Look at machine ary trader .com they got a few used dozers once u get on one u wont want to get off of it. They r alot of fun tooo and an educational for a rookie like me and u remember ur best education is hands on in my book but if u do it ur self the only one u can blame is urself lolno one else

Okie I think renting a dozer to do a little clearing would be a GREAT idea. It would give you a chance to put a few hours on it so you could evaluate your skill levels.

Also if you have quite a bit of under brush or the like, it can be a real problem getting an idea of "the lay of the land" with too much cover in place. Even if you end up hiring someone to build the pond, doing some clean up ahead would even help a professional do a better evaluation.

If you run across some nice trees, leave the nice ones till last to push them out. If you push them all out, then later your wife says "a shade tree sure would nice right here" and you pushed out a perfect one in the perfect spot............ it ain't coming back. So clean up, get a lay of the land, determine where the pond will be situated, before destroying something that you might have found useful. It can always be removed a little later. Stumps also make good fish habitat. Keep that in mind when burning brush piles.

As far as the NRCS, we have a great guy that has been at the job for years, knows his stuff, is very practical, and is easy to work with. Not everyone will be able to say that about their particular guy for their area. Get a feel for "how he is". As far as cost share, I NEVER do cost share. The guy is a public servant and what he does for me has been free. But when it comes to cost share on terraces, waterways or whatever, I personally choose to foot the bill myself and not have the government red tape and hassle. If my terrace is not perfect to suit them, they did not share in the cost of building it, so it can be what I like as long as it does not break any laws. That is a personal choice. Not what I am saying someone else should do. Just be aware government rarely provides anything without strings attached. I prefer to have it "all mine".

Those are my suggestions that I can think of for the moment. Get all the advice from good sources you can, make a decision what way to go, and do it. Most of all, have fun.

Great post snrub- the property has been left vacant for the past 20yrs and prior to that it was only ised to summer a small herd of cattle. So you can imagine the over growth. My wife had already made several comments about not taking to many trees out even up by the road where they are overgrown and dying... Ha

I am so thankful I found this forum and that fact that the members share their opinions and stories.akes me feel a little better about getting started and understanding the entire process.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=28585&Number=366344#Post366344


A few pictures of the place

So hard to get an idea of the lay of the land by pictures.

Is the old pond going to become part of the new pond? In other words, are you going to drain it?

I can tell you from experience, it takes more effort to clean out an old pond usually than just building a new one.

Is the lay of the land such you can build a new one and leave the old one as is or just clean up around the dam. Don't want do do short term fixes that lead to something that you do not want to end up long term. Just trying to give you some thoughts, not suggestions, because I can not get a good idea of the lay of the land.

Sorry about not being very clear. The current pond will not be touched. The new pond will be on the opposite end of the property. I have heard horror stories about trying to cleaning out ponds... Not anything I want to add to the growing list at the moment.

I think that is a wise move.

When you rent that dozer you might want to clean up around the old pond a little. Not too bad looking little pond if it had some TLC.