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Last year I added a few native white water lillies to my 16 acre lake in Southwestern Ontario and suck them in the sand and gravel mix soil. This year it looks like it really didn't work? Any suggestions besides adding them in pots etc. I would like them growing near two islands that would provide some wind protection across the lake. I took care in transplanting them properly and allowing some of the tuber to be exposed above the soil in the water in 3' or less of water. I recently added some largemouth bass to the forage base and will need some cover for them as well as some beauty. I also added some red attraction hybrids in pots and they are doing great so the clear water doesn't seem to be the problem. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated as I try this experiment again in the next few weeks.

Thanks

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Hey Rowly, I tried pots last year... no dice.. only one of 10 has come up so far and it is one that was not in a pot.

Let me kow if you find anything out.


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Great thanks Pottsy.....

Rowly

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From what I know about lilies, they are voracious consumers of nutrients, and need fertilizer tablets if placed in pots. You may want to try a quarter or third of a 55 gallon drum filled with topsoil and covered with some sand or gravel to get them growing and to keep them there.
robert B

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Robert, I think I may try something like that to start and contain them in one area if possible. Thanks

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If you are trying to introduce waterlilies as a break water, rooting them in sand and gravel, that may well be a disappointment ... if the lily pads are constantly being rocked by water motion the roots are persistently being tugged and flexed, as the all important roots on water lilies are the brittle feeder roots they are being systematically ground to shreds...

Additionally waterlilies really hate persistent water motion, they don't like the top side of the lilypad constantly wet, it seems to interfere with the health of the plant if the waxy coating top side is always wet.

You may have better luck trying nuphars, they cope with moving water unlike the nymphaeas... to the extent they can cope with a strong flowing river.

If you can plant a breakwater of say a line of aquatic iris, or create a structure which can act as an effective breakwater, hardy waterlilies stand some chance of establishing if most of the time, the water is still...

One way to cope with the existing situation might be to start tubs waterlilies off in a quiet still location, get them growing strong then boat them over to the exposed position and drop them in, perhaps after establishing a breakwater effect with with composite positions of nuphars, iris, and structural barriers, perhaps a pleasant opportunity to design an attractive 'hide' or sundeck with a picturesque bit of timber decking, standing on pilings easy to drive into the dratted sandy bed \:\)

Regards, Andy

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Andy, thanks for the info., I do have 2 island 75' off shore along the east side of the lake that blocks the west winds. This is where I want to establish the water lillies. I would like to build a floating "T" dock out from the main land shoreline and out to the 2 islands in the next couple of weeks. The lillies would be planted around the docks protected by the two islands that are A 100' long each and A. 75' apart some 75' off shore. I would like some high blooming plants for water 4-5' deep. These waterlillies would also provide some cover for my newly stocked LMB to the lake and some great fishing in this area for my kids. Should I plant only large hybrid waterlillies. The only waterlillies that survived the winter in this part of the lake where the two tubs that had red attractions in it. Do I still need to fertile them and could I also add native white water lillies in these tubs with a different clay mixture from the sand and gravel bottom in the lake for a better survival rate? Thanks

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Rowly,

A few more lillies have started to come up here and there for me... but only the small varieties...
I put in 6 more plants last night following the advice about putting a little fertilizer in, we'll see how that goes.
Right now the annoying thing is that there are little black beetle-like bugs chewing the crap out of the few lilly pads that have come up.

Let me know how you make out.

P.S. Are you getting your pads from a retail outlet or from 'collection' at other locations?


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Pottsy, the red attraction I bought and had in our other location's fish pond. The native white waterlillies come from a established pond with muck on the bottom of this pond.

Rowly

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Hi Rowly

You might want to try establishing positions for one tub each of:

Nymphaea Gladstonia, Nymphaea Richardsonii, and Nymphaea Alba... these are largest strong growing hardy white water lilies to be found, perhaps start a couple of crowns of each type on a tub...

It may be one variety copes better than the others, then you could better choose a variety for planting the position with numbers, start them as shallow as you can rather than dunking them in the deep end...

5' deep is quite drastic for any water lily, especially if there are fish around that might take to clipping the foliage and chobbling on the roots. If you start them off in 3'x1' deep tubs with a clay and soil mix, that will give the waterlilies a good chance of the roots establishing feeder roots, I suspect the water motion will shred roots if they are started in a lot of gravel then subjected to periods of choppy waters...

If you start a tub off at water level, standing on milk crates, you can boat over the soil mix to fill the tubs, then set the rhisomes in place and with a little help kick the supporting crate from under the heavy tub and try to drop it gently into position, fortunately a soil heavy tub is much less weight to maneuver when its in water...

Planting directly into the lake bed may be regretable in deep water, if you can't reach the rhisomes to thin them out in future years, while a rambling rhisome growing off the edge of a lily tub is far easier to reach and snip off to make new positions... You can probably crop lily tubs very easy every three years for spare crowns... embedded in deep water on the lake bottom where you can't reach them is shall we say, creating a difficult task...

There's a strong growing big pink water lily, marliacea carnea... that might be of interest. Attraction is a strong grower, it seems the white that you tried may not have been of a robust enough growing habit for the position.

From the sound of the scale of the project, fertilizing the waterlilies is going to be quite academic, all it will do is dissolve off to add to the general fertility load of the lake.... what really will make a difference is starting the crowns off in soil which is heavy and free of any stones or pebbles, the feeder roots on water lilies like a good soft heavy goo, clay is going to make a difference, its loaded with trace minerals.

To give you some idea of the difference cropping waterlilies in tubs or rooted into a lakebed, imagine one knife cut neatly severing one rhisome poking over the edge of the tub, at about an arms length, underwater. Compare that, to trying to yank out a rhisome one foot thick gripping a lake bed every inch of its length by 3' long tether roots... bear in mind they are out of arms reach, under water....

By the sound of the scale of your project it is going to be quite outstanding....

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Andy, thanks for the get detail. I will use your advice and try to get some of these hybrid waterlillies of different color (Southwestern Ontario, Canada) as well as retrying the native waterlilly in a 55 gal container cut off at A. 1' deep and the clay and dirt mix added to each container. I have assess to many of these 55 gal container so A. how far apart should I position them over the a. 250' of protected water by the islands? Yes it will be quite a project but in the end we should be able to enjoy it. My hope is to rip rap one of the islands and make into a perennial area with a gazebo built on it. The other island will be for the kids to camp on with the aeration windmill etc. I will not fertize the waterlillies and hope they will continue to bloom year after year (both the hybrids and native white and hopefully yellow). The idea of the rhisome poking over the edge of the tub is good so in time I can continue my waterscaping of this large contained area full of color and beauty. Don't forget the LMB will love this area as well. Thanks again and looking forward to your additional comments.

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Rowly - Andy is certianly on the mark when saying that it sounds like you have one heck of a project on your hands that will be exceptionally rewarding.

Andy - Is there any rot issue when cutting rhisomes off of larger roots or when exposing the sponge-like core of larger root pieces?
Thanks.


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Hi Rowly,

Large waterlilies spread about 12' wide above their growing crowns, those crowns may not extend in the first year while they establish new feeder and tether roots, after that the crown might grow 2' long in a year.

A tub at three years old might have rhisomes 4' long, and have a foliage canopy up to 18' wide, at that stage its rambling rhisomes are spreading a couple of feet or so over the edges of the tubs, cut at that stage they should lift with one cut with all their roots intact, easy to start off in new positions....

Hi Pottsy,

There is only one terminal condition specific to hardy hybrids of nymphaeas, nicknamed 'waterlily root rot' or 'crown rot'. If ever infected water lilies have been introduced, the fungus is left behind after the waterlily has been slowly but surely destroyed. Some hardies are vigorous enough to outgrow it, the hardy waterlily 'alba' is the only waterlily known to be not susceptible.

If that gets into the cells of the rhisomes, the flesh turns a distinctive purply black with a unique stinky smell, the waterlily loses most of its vigor, stops flowering and only lives as long as what strength remains in the plants ability to try to grow crowns, infected plants die in a few years or so.

Waterlilies infected like that are usually considered 'disappointing' and end up being given away as 'cheap' or 'free' by their disgruntled owners, not familiar with what is causing their disappointing performance

Unscrupulous folk have been known to dump large numbers of infected waterlilies on the market, motivated by the idea that after the lilies die off, the customer is likely to come back to try another one in a year or so...

Regards, Andy

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Rowly/Andy - I have 3 plants growing now in tubs and 4 others in the pond bottom soil... so far things are picking up. However they are being destroyed by an infestation of small black beetles... I have tried picking them off but the just come back.

Andy - Can Lillies be started from the seeds in the flower pod after the flowering is complete, and if so do you know the best way to do so?
Thanks.


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Hi Pottsy

I get japanese beetles in erratic numbers here, while they ding quite a few buds, up to half of them at times making quite a mess, their activity seems to go in fits and starts. I pick them off when they make a start on buds which I hope to get good photos off and thats about it. One week they are a pain, next week they are gone, and things settle down... I'd just ride it out, and see what happens... its not like its going to terminally threaten the parent plant.

A strong jet of water might thin them out. I wouldnt resort to chemicals unless they were likely to destroy valuable plants or the habitat really....

As for raising waterlily seeds, yes it can be done. I'm sure you would have to offer exotic inducements or torture to pick the brains of the folk who know how to do that well

;\)

Regards, Andy

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Hi Andy,

I recently saw some large (1' diameter or more) lily pads at the Wichita Mountains NWR in southern Oklahoma with some beautiful large lillies that had blooms that were white, about the size of cantelope or basketball, and standing on stalks about two feet off of the water. I know it wasn't from any water drawdown as the pond was flowing over a spillway. I would love to get this plant established on my own pond, but worry about "stealing" a couple of plants from Federal Lands. Would you happen to know what this might be and where I could find it way down here?


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Odds on a large hardy white water lily like that is either: Alba, Gladstonia, or Richardsonii

Varieties like that are very easy to get by mail order, indeed, one of the days I'll be listing alba and richardsonii on e-bay when next I get to thin those out here.

I wouldn't be surprised to find them readily available in search engine under 'water lily richardsonii' 'water lily nymphaea alba 'water lily gladstonia' those three searches should rustle up some pages with photos for you to compare with what you have seen

Alba is nowhere near as attractive as the other two, richardsonii, is, well, spectacular.... gentle rippling lily pad edges, prehistoric dragon like juvenile leaves, gob smacking flowers maybe 10" wide, a gorgeous plant for big fish to loaf among. Richardsonii rhisomes grow at the rate of about two feet a year and probably produce two to three times as many (better) buds than alba

A lot easier than taking pot luck with what's local is finding named varieties on the web, take care to check out the seller has a good range of plants, photographs of them in flower and reacts to e-mail enquiries promptly. A lot of sellers on e-bay are dedicated water gardeners, their descriptions should have accurate names and plenty of comprehendible information about cultivation of the variety

Alba's get dumped on the market quite cheap, reason being Walmart's sells a ton of them to folk with silly little ponds mislabeled as 'choice' waterlilies, buyers soon realise alba is quite invasive and large, what few buds it makes is often smothered under a huge dome of foliage that likes to be 12' wide... and several feet high, lol

regards, andy

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Andy and Pottsy:

I've been very busy building floating docks, swim platforms and starting to rip rap the eastern water edge near the islands. This weekend I will create a floating dock path from the mainland to the most northern island, then connect it with the south island and off the south island back to the mainland. Question Andy.,..if I use chicken wire/fencing attached to the floating docks and into the water some 18" or so, this may help keep this area protected (approx 150' X 60' area between the island and the mainland) from the mouths of my newly introduce domestic ducks and geese??? Whats your thoughts and or other ideas...... I have 10 55 gal drums ready to fill with clay/soil mix and start some waterlillies off in this protected area from the winds on the eastern side of the islands, the waterlillies are just sitting in small pots along the water edge I bought last week waiting for some free time and a strong back....HA!HA! The problem, as I was waiting for this free time the ducks ate most of the leaves and flowers from these young plants,,,, will this affect their growth or is this a good thing as the roots will get most of the action for growth now or will the regrowth of the flower take up most of its energy????? Funny thing I have 2 established red attraction water lillies in this area from last year and the ducks don't really bother them? Thanks again for the info.

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Hi Rowly

Ducks and turtles can cripple water lilies if they persistently graze them, Winter can be a particularly difficult time if the 'pilot' leaves are cropped. I call them 'pilot' leaves because the water lilies 'tick over' when dormant and the pilot leaves do 'just enough' to keep the plant healthy

When established, hopefully there is enough foliage abundant to cope with grazing... when establishing new water lily positions it may be feasible to put a cage over the crowns so grazers can't get close to doing to much damage, while allowing new foliage to grow through the cage...

If all the stems get cropped, that can seriously cripple the water lilies...

Sob... I'd hope you get to post photos of this location, if only to make us cringe with envy

Regards, Andy

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Andy, thanks for the info., the ducks have ate most of the leaves off the 4 waterlillies I bought the other day and waiting to be planted in those 55 gal cut off drums just sitting in the water along the shoreline in one particular area. Any suggestions on how to keep these new waterlillies from dieing now???? EG. should I sit in 1' of water to have high light to the plant to help promote new growth quickly? I will post some PICS in the near future when I get further along.

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Water lilies can tick over fine in your drums, plonk 6" of fertile clay and soil in the tub. put a foot of water over the soil, weight the water lilies down with stones that don't smother the crown, the point where the leaves and roots are formed... Place the tubs where they don't catch for extreme midday heat

You can set aside water lilies like that for some time and they will thrive. The only thing that could spoil them is a severe frost freezing the water in the tub...

Regards, Andy

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Andy....update....I've been adding tons of riprap rock around the island and east shoreline as well as building a bridge between the mainland and the north island. I planted several waterlillies and aquatic plants around the shelter of the islands (marsh marigolds, arrowhead, iris etc) but the ducks and geese ate the plants shortly thereafter. I will try again next year with wire protect around the waterlillies etc. I will post some pic soon when I get some free time and near completion.

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Rowly, I have been reading this string and getting quite a chuckle out of it all. Not to make fun, but it does tend to fall under the category of trying to fool mother nature. The reality is that most of what you need to know you will have to find out for yourself. The help of our fellow "Pond Bosses" is invaluable but the actual application to each individual circumstance does require some trial and error as long as we don't stretch the basic rules too far. I would love to have half of what I have spent over the years on plants, critters and schemes to improve life. Don't get me wrong, I love it and will continue and again I wish you luck and remember to always have a good laugh when things don't go quite right.
Jim

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Hi Rowly,

I've had turtles doing damage to at least 11 varieties of water lily in the last year here, a humane turtle trap has put a stop to damage from them very effectively this last month, four large turtles evicted, to date, no sign of further damage currently...

Chicken mesh (2" x 3" grid) Looks like it would be cost affective to keep ducks off.... if four posts were driven in and the mesh nailed flat across the top of water lily baskets being established, that would probably keep ducks off rhisomes a foot or two deep

Regards, Andy

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The other option is to have some duck for dinner, they are delicious

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