I am wanting to add a dock this summer and I was wondering the best way to support it. Will driving posts into the pond bottom potentially cause a leak? What kind of posts should I use? How deep do you want to drive the posts into the bottom for best stability since you can't use a concrete footer. Is there any need to drop the pond level to install it?
Just use a pier block to set your 4x4 in or a 8x12x12 solid block for a 6x6 or larger post. I have not had any luck driving posts in any water except in tidal water that is loaded with sand. Make sure you square it before putting on the deck boards. Good luck.
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
Some use posts set in 5 gallon buckets full of concrete. Others use pipes driven into the water. Trying to drive in wood posts that float will be almost impossible. Bad enough trying to pull them down onto already set concrete footers. It was NOT easy.
After creating our smaller fixed dock, I would instead have a fixed deck on the shoreline, then a pivoting ramp out to a float dock. That way when the water level fluctuates, the dock goes with it and it wont be up in the air like an eyesore.
I am unsure how we'll do ours. I'm mixed on floating vs. stationary. I lean towards stationary. And it's more trouble, but I think you can use concrete footer. See article below:
I have considered a floating dock, but I have a few issues. First, I haven't found a place to get barrels cheep. Second, I am worried that a floating dock will cause issues with ice integrity in the winter and I would rather not have to pull the dock for winter. I also like the idea of a more stable platform.
After having a few barrels leak (white ones, not the blue ones). I'd just google dockbuilders supply and get the floats shipped to you if you are going the floating dock route. Less hassle to build using the floats vs. barrels.
I have considered a floating dock, but I have a few issues. First, I haven't found a place to get barrels cheep. Second, I am worried that a floating dock will cause issues with ice integrity in the winter and I would rather not have to pull the dock for winter. I also like the idea of a more stable platform.
Pond and homeowners tend to use barrels around here because they are easy to find for free most of the time.Almost all of the floating docks at marinas near me use styrofoam for floatation.I forget the exact stuff that my friend uses at his marina but I could ask if you want to look into other options.the biggest downside to foam is it wont last if you dont protect it from UV light,but as long as it is protected it lasts as long as the wood does here in the salt water.
Thanks, but the possibility of muskrats chewing into the foam bothers me. I did a price comparison to the floats from Dockbuilders and I'd probably be $$ ahead by using them in the first place if you count the extra material and labor (i.e time) that the barrels required.
Thanks guys, lots to think about. I did get 15" of fluctuation last summer, but I plan on adding water this year from my well to keep a more stable water level.
I am happy with my combo dock. The floating portion is joined to the fixed portion with crossing chains from the corners (with turn buckles) to help with stability. The chains run under the gangway. It is certainly less stable than a floating dock with fixed posts, but it works if your not a land lubber:) I did add rails to the gangway after a couple of stumbles from others.
Otter, if you ever get a chance to come out to my place, you will see the dock Zep mentioned. It has been working great so far. It has floated many times when my water has risen during flooding. I was afraid of this situation, and I didn't want the post to get pulled up out of the ground during a flood like I have seen so many times with other designs.
RAH, I have a combo dock too and think it turned out well. I along with help of three teenage grandsons built the 80'x 8' wide fixed section out of 8" "I" beam sitting on 12" diameter "osage orange hedge" posts. We also built the 8' long ramp portion and added one float under it.
The floating portion was bought off Craig's list. We made a metal frame for underneath it and used hinges for the floating and rigid parts that were planter market hinges out of the salvage pile.
I'm a lot better with metal than wood, thus the use of the metal sub-structure. I thought the floating part might need cables to stabilize it, but with the 8' wide ramp, heavy greaseable hinges, and overbuilt by several magnitudes (one of my shortcomings) there appears no need for the cables.
Sorry for the distant pictures. Not where I can take more right now and any other pics I have of the building process are on another computer I don't have access to right now.
Pond is 3.1 acres for size reference. Some pictures show pond about a foot below full pool. The slope of the 8' ramp drops about 8" over an 8' span when the pond is at full pool. Ramp is basically straight across to floating portion if 8" overflow pipe is running full bore. First picture is within a few inches of pond full pool.
Edit 2017. Since the pictures the overflow pipe was raised. At full pool the water comes to within a couple inches of the bottom of the metal tabs where the posts attaches to the channel. The floating dock sits at the same level as the fixed dock at full pool. When water is running out the overflow the floating dock will actually be slightly above the fixed dock. I like it much better since we raised the water level.
As far as pouring concrete in standing water, I will not tell you the right way, but the redneck way.
Our outer most post pair the pond had filled to within about a foot of where we dug the holes. We used a tractor with 18" hydraulic post auger to drill holes 4' deep into solid clay. Then we put in 12" (+ or -) hedge posts, filled with dry quickcrete, tamped it in and left the next day on vacation.
Figuring the likelihood of large amounts of rain being slim, was going to finish putting the rest of the posts in when we got back.
Well Murphy showed up, as would be expected, and all the best laid plans of mice and men foiled. We got rain. We got LOTS of rain. We returned to a pond 3/4 full.
So the next three sets of posts had to be installed in the water. Fortunately the water was not so deep that we were able to drive the mfwd tractor out with the hydraulic digger on the loader and drill the remaining holes. (water never got up to front axle level - I would not have risk ruining the front end in deep water).
Drilled two holes at a time with grandson's putting a length of pvc pipe in the hole to keep it's location known (post holes disappear under water and 18" is big enough to loose an entire grandson). We set the posts vertical by using boards attached from the original two posts (thank goodness we got them set on solid ground and they were solid as the Rock of Gibraltar).
Then we mixed up batches of concrete and dumped them around the post in standing water. Now the way we did it was not the correct way. We just dumped it in right from the 3pt mixer that runs off the pto on the back of the tractor. We made it a little extra rich with portland cement. The more proper way would have been made a tube that extended down the hole so that the new concrete would not be exposed to large volumes of water on the trip down. The concrete displaces the water in the hole, the water rises and the concrete sinks, and the concrete sets under water. Ours was no doubt diluted badly the way we did it. But it set up and seems fine.
My logic was, well at least it would be as good as putting crushed rock around the posts, and at best the Portland cement would set up and make it weaker but still concrete. Well it did set up fine and the dock is solid as a rock. The holes were 4' deep so even if the cement portion of the concrete failed, the posts would have been fine. Like I said, I have a wee tendency to over do things. The dock is not going any where.
The last holes were still on dry ground as well as the concrete foundation the land end of the dock sits on. It is very solid. My wife does not like wiggly docks, and she got a solid one. I think I could drive a pickup truck out there if I wanted to.
Anyway, that was the construction technique. At some point afterward, I found out actually how a dock was supposed to be made and the hardware I could have ordered for the hinges, ect. Oh well. It was a learning experience and something three teenage grandsons will remember about their crazy old grandpa for a long time.
Oh, building the two 40' sections of the fixed dock in their entirety in our shop (except for the wood floor part), then putting them out over the water on top of the posts, is an entire other story. But suffice it to say, it turned out all good.
Otter, if you ever get a chance to come out to my place, you will see the dock Zep mentioned.
Dang-it fish n chips I wish I wasn't so far away or I'd come take a peek and walk on it. I know it wont be quite as stable, but how would you say the stability compares to a stationary dock? Do you ever feel "this thing is bouncing pretty good and I wish I had a handrail"? At this time I prefer to not have handrails.
On our 12x16 portion that is floating it will tip one way or the other when people move from side to side, but to me it never feels unstable like I would need a hand rail.
This floating dock was built by someone else but it is out of commercial dock floats that are black plastic filled with foam. My guess is it was a kit of some sort. It is built in two separate sections and bolted together. I know this because we disassembled it to load it on a gooseneck trailer to bring it home from the guy it was purchased from. It was two 6'x16' sections bolted together to make a 12x16.
Before we attached it to the fixed dock, we floated it out on the pond and in fact loaded a pretty heavy 8'x8' ramp that was used to attach it to the fixed portion.
The 12x16 had a wooden "transom" built and screwed onto the deck (which we removed) for a trolling motor so it could be used as a "redneck pontoon boat" as the previous owner called it.
To make it tippy and unstable, I would say I would have needed to get three teenage grandsons and paid them 5 bucks each to figure out how to do it, and they probably could have. But they swim, dive, and jump around on it and I have never felt the need for a hand rail. We put hand rails on the fixed portion of the dock so when the wife and I get old and decrepid we can bounce between the rails on our geriatric scooters, but fortunately so far we have not had the need for the scooters. We also put a hand rail on the ramp because when water levels are low it has some slant and I thought in case the ramp was wet people might feel more comfortable having something to hang on to.
But the floating dock, if made with adequate flotation (as opposed to barely enough to make it float) can be pretty stable. Those commercial floats all have weight ratings for them.
Mine is pretty durn stable. Much more stable than Cecil's pier that is on pipes into the pond bottom that goes across his pond. 12'x8' end is supported by as many barrels as I could fit, 4'x16' walkway is supported by 8 barrels (I believe - I'd have to go out and count 'em or look in the thread that I made about building it).
Adding this link to help Otter out with some ideas. LINK
Also Zep, this link shows why I built my dock the way I did. Most build a floating dock because their water level fluctuates in dry spells. I have a bit of unique circumstance as to where my water level stays pretty even, but I do get big inflows of water and it takes a few days to go back down to normal. Zep, during these times I am not concerned about getting onto my dock to fish, as the whole ecosystem is out of whack and fishing wouldn't be good. I did walk out onto it during the largest flood we had, and it sank into the water with my weight on it. It did hold me up, but it was like wading into shallow water. Now, if your talking about the stability when the water has receded back to normal, it as stable as any permanent dock I've been on. Don't forget, at the normal water level the decking is sitting on permanent underbracing so its very solid. When its floating on water, it's like being in a Huckleberry Fin adventure
