Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Perch spawning habitat?

What would you use to encourage yellow perch to reproduce in a half-acre farm pond?

The perch (yellow perch) will reproduce without encouraging, but the eggs may not hatch well unless the egg strands are suspended or draped off the bottom over some sort of structure. Several things could be used. I use small trees or twiggy tree branches 4ft - 8ft long with a base stem/branch diameter of about 1"-2". I use green tree branches; they have the most small twigs. In early to mid March, lay several of these branches in shallow water with the butt ends on the bank and twigs in water from shore to abt 6"-24" deep. I often lay a smallish flat piece of cement (3-8 lbs) on the butt end to hold the twig end under water with some of it resting on the bottom. This type of spawning structure will be used by perch and one can easily see the eggs that are deposited since it is in shallow water. I remove branches in early May after eggs have hatched.

More permanent structures can be sunk deeper along the edges of the pond in about 2-5 ft of water. Wire mesh cylindrical open ended cages could be used. Last year's christmas trees or sunken tree tops would work.

Perch in Ohio ponds will typically spawn in late March to mid April when water temps are 49F-54F. My experience is if the pond has largemouth bass in it and few if any weeds do not expect very many, if any, of the hatchlings to reach 8" long. I find LMB too efficient as predators of YP. Typically for optimum perch production and large size classes, perch in northern Ohio ponds require a different type predator than the LMB.

Hello, Sunbury! Us Route 37 types need to stick together.

Thanks Bill Cody!! I do have access to a lot of small branches or trees. Do you think if I left the branches in the water, would it help the hatchlings? I do have some cover in 6 to 8ft of water but I don't think it will do much good.

This pond is about a year old and was stocked with bluegills,10 cc's, approx.40 4-6inch LMB, some black crappie and 50 6-9inch yellow perch. I do feed high protein pellets and stocked fat-head minnows in the spring and fall.

What type of predator would you suggest other than the LMB?

Again, thanks for your time.

Theo, I'm just south of 37 and 605. Hope to meet you some day!!!

A half acre pond isn't very large. With LMB, YP, BCP, CC and BG you've got a lot of possible future biomass for a pond of that size. Keeping this in mind, you may want to consider what each of these species is capable of doing in your pond.

The BG will reproduce in large numbers in your pond producing a lot of biomass. Hopefully the LMB, the adult BCP and adult YP you stocked will keep their numbers down and allow them to grow to good harvest size.

BCP often times have a hard time spawning in smaller ponds. They spawn in early spring, the pond will then cool down with a large cold front and the males will abandon the nest. This causes the eggs and fry to die. Smaller ponds are particularly susceptible to this because of how quickly they can heat and cool... This can be a good thing because BCP can quickly overpopulate a small pond. However, the rare spring where temperatures stay gradual, they will successfully spawn and you will get quite a large crop of YOY BCP.

The 40 LMB you put in your pond will be spawning by next spring. That is going to be a lot of mouths to feed. They will help thin out your BCP if they do reproduce but may not be able to keep up. BCP spawn before LMB and their young will hammer the LMB fry mercilessly. So LMB recruitment can be very tough in small ponds where BCP do reproduce. This means there will be few LMB surviving to adulthood to keep the numbers of other fish at acceptable levels.

The YP will reproduce fairly easily in your pond with the structure Bill Cody mentioned but again, their will be large numbers of young born and even more biomass.

If your CC do successfully reproduce you are looking at another large amount of biomass being born into your pond. However, without the correct spawning structure you shouldn't have to worry about this.

You have to keep in mind, that a half acre pond can only support so much biomass. With supplemental feeding and aeration you can increase this biomass but only to a point. You may want to consider not encouraging natural reproduction in your pond but rather rely on annual or semi annual stockings to maintain your fish. This way you can control the exact numbers of the different fish species in your pond. Otherwise you may pay the price in the future with large fish kills in the summer and winter and extremely low growth rates. Plus you will have to intensively cull fish through seining, angling or other methods to keep the fish populations in balance.

If you were going to add another predator to your pond, I would go with HSB. They will not reproduce in your pond, so you can closely control their numbers. They will help you control the possible over population of the BCP and YP in your pond as well and they can be fed pellets. Plus they are excellent fighters on the end of the line and good eating.

HANG LOOSE
I have said this once today already.
no body says it better than BILL CODY.

I Have a friend in Sunbury, Charlie Layton He taught me how to run dirt equipment. If you know him tell him you read nis name on the forum.

Mike Otto

As I mentioned earlier if you have LMB don't expect recrutiment of very many perch regardless of how well they spawn. Keep an eye on the YP for me and please report back here in 2012 or 2014 and tell us how many perch you are seeing or catching. IMO of those you stocked the YP will succeed the poorest. In several years if your pond is a typical OH pond, you will still see some adults but my concern is how many young ones are surviving each year to grow into the 8" category. I don't mind hearing when I'm wrong.

IMO You like many others with a new small pond have taken the road of stocking too many sport fish (mostly predators, including YP, CC and crappie) compared to the forage fish base. As a result the fish growth will lag that of a properly stocked pond loaded with small, prolific forage fish. Been there and done that!

CJBS2003, The only fish I plan to add this year are some fatheads and I might try maybe 8-10 of the talipia if I can find any. We plan on harvesting some the fish for a couple fish-fries this summer. I don't like to eat catfish but I have friends that love'em. (4 or 5 cc's will be coming out plus some bass and gills). Maybe some perch depending on how big they are. I appreciate your time answering my questions. I wish I'd found this site and OGF before my pond filled up.

Otto, Don't know him but I'll keep my ears open. Sunbury is not that big. Do you know where he works?

Do not harvest any BG until the population has reached capacity (4-6 yrs) and numerous large individuals are present. Then harvest only females. Also I would seriously reconsider harvesting any YP until you know they are producing YOUNG fish that are moving into the 8" or larger size category. Stock about 50 - 80 lbs of minnows each year and your existing fishery will prosper.

Bill Cody, I'm still learning. Some of those bass will be eaten by us. (Hope we can keep up with them). If I messed up to bad, You'll be able to find me on the corrective stocking thread. (man, I hope not).

Anyway, thanks.

Your fishery will likely be okay, but just okay, and not in the trophy or memorable category.

OUCH Bill, that's like a punch to the gametes.

Wow! nice play on words there with the reference to Gabelhouse's work.

Thanks.

Bill Cody, aside from the LMB which predatory fish species would you suggest?

I am thinking walleye only because I am north of Ohio and was told this was a good predator for perch ponds. I do not know how well walleye would do with large mouth bass present. I would expect you would have to stock walleye in the size larger then the bass would try to eat. That can be quite big because of the size of the basses mouth.

I am in no way an expert but I have read everything Bill and other have to say about perch ponds. I am only starting on my second summer with ours.

Cheers Don.

Christmas trees are said to be some of the best spawning habitat for perch.

http://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/pond/upload/Yellow-Perch-Spawning-Mar-Apr-2007.pdf


http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=249108.0

IMO LMB are too good of a predator of yellow perch, especially if the LMB are reproducing and creating numerous size classes of predators that need prey items. YP have the same basic body shape of a LMB. Elongated, bottom oriented, fairly slow moving YP are very easy prey for a long period of time (up to 3-5yrs) for adult LMB.

If the question is what alternative predators are best for YP fisheries, then my answer is "it all depends". If the pond is weedy then LMB would be good to hunt down YP among lots of weeds. If the pond is weed free, then I prefer a non-reproducing predator for YP because it gives the manager very good control of the number and size of predators eating the YP population. Too many YP, then add predators; too few YP, then remove predators - good control of the predator influence is important in growing the best YP. I think the best non-reproducing predators for most ponds are HSB and walleye. HSB being my usual favorite; walleye the close second. My third choice is smallmouth, although SMB will usually spawn in most ponds, but not anywhere near the extent of LMB. Plus smallies have a slightly smaller mouth compared to LMB thus the smallies will not eat quite as large of YP as LMB. Some have used CC in YP ponds but I do not prefer them due to they can recruit small CC in ponds without LMB. Too many CC per acre will overeat the YP and cause the water to be more turbid reducing the pond aesthetics and ability of YP to forage optimally.

Northern pike are a possible predator in a YP pond, although the NP will quickly grow to sizes where they are eating mostly the harvestable size YP. A better pike life predator would be the small grass pike - pickerels or chain pickerel. Trout would also be an acceptable predator of YP in the right pond conditions.

With lots of food from pellets and in weed free ponds, the YP fishery can be very good without any other predator species if the goal is a large annual harvest of YP. Large YP are also predators of small YP up to 4 long so one will get some YP predation by just having numerous larger perch in the pond. With limited YP spawning or good manual removal of small 1"-4" YP, predation of YP by adult YP can result in a good and balanced YP fishery. In these ponds, I suggest implementing a strict slot limit where medium size YP are harvested and larger YP are released to prey on small young of year YP. In YP only ponds it is good to have 1-3 species of minnows shiners always present to provide supplemental foods for YP.

Thank you, Bill.

So I have this straight a HSB (hybrid striped bass) is the same as a wiper (Morone saxatilis x M. chrysops), correct?

At this point in time I'm looking to stock a pond with FHM as forage. The most prolific species will be the YEP. I'm also considering supplementing these fish with BLB as both a forage for YEP and potential sport fish. The apex predator would then be HSB.

The size of the pond is 3-4 acres, so what percentage of the YEP should I be stocking the pond with HSB if the outcome is to produce 8-10 in YEP?

Yes HSB are hybrid stripped bass. Are you planning to feed pellets?
The number of perch to stock will depend on how fertile the pond is. Do you have any idea what the other local ponds are like regarding average water clarity or the general or average alkalinity of local natural waters? Alkalinity will often be an indication of general pond fertility or ability to produce plankton which often reflects average water clarity.
Send me a Private Message so I can email you some additional info.

With the hopes to add to this topic and thread I have a question as well.

What are the chances of new young perch that are spawned in the pond learning by their parents to eat pellets?

I have found it quite easy to create a huge bio mass of perch in a short time with pellet feeding. The minnow bio mass as well love to eat the soft pellets after the perch are full. I am just wondering what % if any will learn from the stocked pellet trained to eat the pellets.

Why I ask is because last year we did have a small perch spawn in our pond. With my boys fishing every day I could tell what perch were of the original stock and what were young yearling perch. Late in the season the only perch the boys would catch were the young yearling perch as the stocked perch would gorge on pellets. I would watch the young yearling perch eat the bugs attracted by our water lights as well. I just do not know how many may have been eating pellets as well as the bugs. I guess that in the future the few scrawny yearling perch would be eaten by the larger perch of the pond. One more thing to add is that any yearling perch that the boys would catch on a worm and hook when caught would only poop out bugs. None of them that were caught on a hook would poop out pellet feed. Maybe the only ones eating the worms are the only hungery ones as well and the only ones needing to eat worms and bug.

Cheers Don.

DonoBBD - That is a good question that probably does not have a good firm answer. Several things likely influence how many YOY perch learn to eat pellets. I think main factors are: A. how long the genetic stock had been domesticated of the original perch. The more the previous generations had been pellet trained the greater the percentage of YOY will go to pellets. B. How much natural food is in the pond. The less natural food is in the pond the more likely the young perch will try to eat pellets. Keeping the number high of new perch that learn to eat pellets each year is an important management practice in maintaining a long term high quality perch fishery.

I think you are correct, the skinny slow growing young perch are more likely to get eaten by another fish due to the skinny fish remaining relatively small compared to faster growing siblings.