Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,064
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,408
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
21 members (e_stallman, FishinRod, esshup, Justin W, Augie, bstone261, jpsdad, emactxag, Ron crismon, Dave Davidson1, Saratznj, Donatello, Layne, Freg, Sunil, tws3, rjackson, jludwig, Shorthose, DenaTroyer, Theo Gallus), 696 guests, and 159 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
The saga continues - they actually do not have them yet available at the fishery...

Last edited by RAH; 10/25/13 07:30 AM.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Sorry RAH....apparently I've misunderstood something, somewhere.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
I have conflicting information on availability of perch sizes (in writing) from another supplier, so my guess is that its not confusion on your part.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
I have another YP question. I just ordered 25 8-10" YP and 25 2-4" RES from a supplier (the perch were very expensive!). If I put these in my 1 acre pond (in late November), will the YP eat the RES? There are a lot of FHM fry already in the pond.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
YP are piscivorous and yes a 8-10" YP can utilize a 2" YP as forage. 3"+ are probably safe from YP. Doesn't mean they will be hammered, but could be. The densest forage type is likely to be utilized as forage primarily - in your case, FHM. Still that's a low stocking density for a 1 acre fishery. Typical stocking rate recommendations are for 250 RES/ac.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
I am planning to build some 8'L x 4'D x 4'w cages. Maybe I should put those RES under 3" in there? I know the stocking rate is low. I am hoping for reproduction.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
RES will likely die in cages...very difficult to feed train them, unless you want to feed them crawlers, shrimp, mealworms etc. If you're going to cage anything, the YP are the best bet. Many of us here cage and grow out YP with success. I have 400 in 2 cages myself right now waiting for Spring gender ID and release.

What is your goal with the RES? Establish self sustaining and viable population I figure? If so, and you don't want to stock 250/ac prior to adding the SMB and maybe YP or other predator fish, then you can stock larger RES to escape predation now or in Spring.

I think your 3-4" RES are ok even with YP there...if you want to err on the side of caution stock more RES, try for 3"+ fish. When stocking such low numbers one isn't afforded much margin for error or predation...


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 36
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 36
My gut feeling after feed training RES over the summer is that RES likely have eyes that are super sensitive to light, more so than other sunfish. I believe this is the reason they do not feed train well.

Shaded cages and feeding times at dusk and dawn, or even after dark will likely lead to a higher percentage of RES becoming feed trained. That is the hypothesis I am going to test next year.

I should mention that I have a few of my feed trained RES in in an aquarium in my basement. I started feeding them rosey red FHM last week to see how they might utilize the abundant GSH hatches in my pond. Guess what? 95% of the RRFHM that have been captured and eaten have been after the lights go out in almost pitch black conditions. During the day hardly any RRFHM vanish. Last Friday after work I added 23 small RRFHM minnows to the tank, my RES ignored them all evening when the tank lights were on. When I got up the next morning and turned the lights on there were just four left. shocked

There is a reason RES like to hang out in deeper water during the day.



Last edited by Shorty; 10/25/13 03:38 PM.


Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
That is really cool stuff Shorty.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
I'll just release all the fish and see what happens. I'll ask the neighbor that fishes my LMB pond if he will move any large RES he catches to the new pond.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
With abundant FHM available, I doubt many if any of the 2"-4" RES will be eaten by your 8"-10" YP. Especially if more of the RES are leaning more towards the 4" size...

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
We will see when they come. The main goal is big SMB, so I think that the RES are a bonus anyway.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
My experiences agree with CJBS. The large YP of 8"-10" will eat mostly the FHM that are 1"-1.5" long. When those individuals become scarce the perch will focus on eating 1.7"-2" FHM. Largest FHM 2.5"-3" will be still present for spawning season. If the YP are feed trained even fewer minnows will be eaten. I think the larger perch will pretty much ignore the 2"-4" Res as long as FHM are common. Plan on most of the RES to be in the smaller sizes of 2"-4". Let us know about the sizes you receive.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Thank you - I may add larger RES next spring. Hopefully, only 25 YP in a 1 acre pond that had 5 lbs of FHM added this spring will keep them happy. Not sure how the 50 GSH did.

Last edited by RAH; 10/26/13 07:57 AM.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 36
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 36
Originally Posted By: RAH
Not sure how the 50 GSH did.


Based on my initial stocking of 3 dozen GSH in 2011 I am guessing your GSH are fat, happy, and too big for your YP to eat. wink



Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
That is encouraging!

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
The YP will eat the FHM before eating very many shiners.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 227
Likes: 2
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 227
Likes: 2
Looking forward to next years stocking and trying to locate fish or at least find potential places that may have availability, I wanted to recap where I'm at now and what my initial plans were moving forward.

Current Recap

Pond dug in Summer of 2013 has completely filled and has minimal to no vegetation.

Stocked in 2013

Aug 24th - 10# - FHM
Aug 24th - 75 - 2-3" RES
Oct 17th - 200 - Papershell Crayfish
Oct 25th - 600 - 2 1/4" GSH

2014 Plans

Install feeder prior to stocking in 2014
Early March 2014 - 150 - 4-6" YP Feed trained
Early March 2014 - 75 - 6-8" YP Feed trained
Early March 2014 - 25 - 8-10" YP Feed trained

Fall 2014 - 40 - 4-6" SMB
Fall 2014 - 100 - 2-3" RES


Since the FHM likely didn't spawn this year (haven't even seen them since stocking), does it still make sense to stock the perch in the spring of 2014 or should I push my 2014 plans off until 2015? Or will the feed and existing FHM in the pond be enough to keep the perch occupied so they don't clean out the pond before I add the SMB in the fall?


1 Acre Pond with SMB, YP, LMB, GSF, RES, FHM, GSH, Papershell Crayfish, Pike
5.5 Acre Pond with LMB, BG

My Build Thread
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
The YP will eat the FHM before eating very many shiners.


Yep seen this first hand this year. The FHM are really hard to find even after one year. All I have is these odd shiners of some sort. They are much faster and harder to catch. I just hope what ever happened for the spawn of the shiners this past year keeps up next. This 2014 year perch spawn for us is going to be much bigger now that all 400 are 6-9"s.

Cheers Don.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
Huntmaster, I would give your FHM and GSH another year before stocking... I would stock your YP in the fall of next year. You can stock the additional RES this spring if you like. You can consider stocking the SMB next fall as well with the YP. I think you will be OK, not waiting for the following year to stock the SMB...

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
Huntmaster - a 2nd option is in March early Apr stock only the 150 4"-6" pellet trained perch, and some (25-30) of the 6"-8" YP. Then in fall stock the 25 8"-10". perch with the SMB. If you regularly feed the 4"-6" YP and a few larger YP they will essentially stay fat on pellets and will not eat very many of the minnows. The spring stocking of a few of the larger 6"-8" YP will insure a YP spawn in Apr of 2014. A spring YP spawn prior to the later SMB stocking results in a strong population of YP that will be the backbone of the SMB forage base.

A 3rd option is to stock all 3 sizes and numbers of the YP as planned and in addition add another 10 lbs of FHM in spring before the FHM start spawning. This will still provide you with lot of minnows for the fall SMB-RES stocking.

I find that both above options work well. Try one of them and next fall report back here telling us how many FHM and shiners you are seeing. FHM and Shiners should both be very apparent and eating pellets along with the YP.

Very doubtful you had a FHM spawn from the August stocking of FHM. You are not seeing them because they stay deep when there are no predators pushing minnows to the shallows for cover-refuge areas.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/29/13 09:03 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Would you expect 8-10" YP stocked this fall (delivered today) to spawn next year? How can I tell when I should add SMB? I want to add a small number of SMB and let them reproduce (1 acre pond). If there is someone interested in documenting and publishing the results of my yp/smb experience in Indiana, this may be an opportunity to get this scenario documented in the peer-reviewed literature. I have published a bit, but not remotely in this area, but if someone with more fishery biology experience is interested, I would welcome the collaboration.

Last edited by RAH; 10/30/13 08:14 PM.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
Fall Stocked YP at 8"-10" long will definitely spawn the next spring assuming they have a maintenance diet late fall and overwinter. Often 6"-8" long female perch are capable of spawning. Well fed YP will go into winter with enough body fat to finish egg development for the spring spawn. Midwestern and northern yellow perch start egg development in August.

I would add SMB after you verify that you had a perch spawn in spring. Presence of YOY perch takes some of the SMB predation pressure off the minnows/shiners/invertebreates.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/30/13 08:30 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Thank you - When should perch stop being fed (water temp or date) in central Indiana?

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 477
Mine have quit actively feeding on the surface about a week ago at water temps around 54F-52F. I still feed the YP some moist sinking pellets on warm days. They will eat little amounts of sinking food at temps below 50F.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/31/13 09:03 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Page 5 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:28 AM
Alum vs Bentonite/Lathanum for Phosphorus Removal?
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:23 AM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:22 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by jpsdad - 03/28/24 07:40 AM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5