Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Newer sand pit pond

Just purchased a 1.2 acre pit pond that is clear, 12-14 feet deep and filled with clouds of shiners only.

I only want walleye for now as the lone gamefish. Any advice out there for the number of fingerlings I should stock? There is little to no weeds for cover... Should I drop downed trees for the eyes to hide under since they don't like the sunlight(super clear water), or shouldn't I worry about it?

I was a subscriber back in 04'-05' without (dreamer) a pond. Now I'm pumped and can actually feel like I belong....

Thanks in advance!

If the pond truly only has shiners in it you might want to consider if it winterkilled everything else.

It was an operating sand pit up until a couple years ago. The former owner only put shiners in and had a minnow trap to collect bait. He was tickled to get loads of 2 to 6 inch shiners since they go for up to nine bucks a dozen at the local bait shops.

Hoping the pond won't winterkill. Was told it has springs but need to figure out how to test it to see if it does. Going to stock and hope they make it through this winter.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum J. Meyer.

Establishing some cover for your forage is probably a good idea. You can consider sinking some Christmas trees this winter.

Are you against stocking any other species as forage as well? I am assuming by shiners, you most likely are referring to golden shiners(GSH). To diversify the forage base, you can consider adding fathead minnows(FHM). I would stock a small number this upcoming spring, perhaps a couple hundred that you can hand sort to ensure there are no unwanted hitchiker species with the goals you have in mind. I would also consider stocking some yellow perch(YP) this fall before it gets too cold. If you stock advanced fish, they should pull off a spawn in the spring. Then you can stock your walleye(WE) next fall into a diversified forage base.

Next fall I would stock around 50-60 WE. You should be able to get yearling fish at 7"-9" in length.

Thanks

Not a good idea to have just a WE/GSH pond?

Possibly just add FHM?

This fall would be too early to put the WE in? Could I up the number WE stocked being the only gamefish?

Thanks for the help.

Having a diverse forage base would be better. Why are you so against stocking other species as forage for your WE?

You could certainly stock WE this fall, especially since you have a well established GSH population. You can always stock the WE and YP this fall in you break in and stock the YP. I would at a minimum stock some FHM next spring.

Mostly worried that the perch could overpopulated and take away forage and space that the WE could have filled.

Any WE and minnow only ponds out there?

Welcome back J. - and congrats on your new pond!

I think a WE/YP pond with GSH and FHM would be a great fishery. Remember fishing will be tough if WE are the only fish stocked - addition of YP will increase angling success and provide great fillets, too. Heck you could go so far as to stock SMB if you wanted, also. GSH can survive in a pond with SMB/WE/YP as apex predators - they have in mine for several years.

Consider adding additional forage like native MN crayfish or grass shrimp to the mix to help relieve pressure off the GSH. Both are easy to source and won't break the bank.

Keep us in the loop what you end up doing...we need some WE/YP fisheries to study so we can all learn together. I think Bill Cody is the only forum member with a specialized fishery of this kind.

I am sure Bill Cody will see this thread and weigh in... I would follow his advice as he is one of the if not the most knowledgeable person out there when it comes to managing ponds for YP and WE.

Adding some cover will help!! Sounds like it is the right habitat for WE to reproduce! do you have crayfish?? They may be another forage option.

You can manage either way: shiner-WE or shiner-FHM-WE-YP. The YP will not overpopulate if WE numbers are dense say 60-100/ac and YP will be scarce but commonly large. Generally the fewer WE you stock per acre the larger the top end size will tend to be and vice versa. The more you stock the smaller the top end size will be; example 90-120 per ac will result in slower growth and smaller top end size of 18"-20" which are the best eating size for WE - IMO. Fewer WE/ac (30-50) results in fewer walleye catches per angler hour and more abundant average smaller perch (7"-10"). If you want a little more total fish production in the pond, I would feed the shiners and or YP pellets. This will increase the overall carrying capacity of the pond i.e more fish pounds/ac.

Plan to Restock WE regularly based on number harvested each year. Add stock WE of 5"-8" are relatively cheap add-stock sportfish considering the food quality of the final product 16"-24" long.

Adding perch will provide more angling opportunities for especially less experienced anglers and when WE have lockjaw especially during sunny day angling. YP seem to always be willing to take baited hooks, not so true for WE. You could easily grow common perch to the 13" sizes and occasional 14"ers with some pellet feeding and correct number and size of WE/ac. Good written records and annual monitoring of the sizes and numbers of all species will improve the quality of the fishery.

Keep in mind that a 12"+ walleye can easily eat 1000+ small fish per year if it is growing an average annual length increase.

That sounds like a dream fishery to me.

Keep in mind that predator fish need abundant forage of the appropriate size in order to grow large. With only shiners in there your larger WE will have a tough time.

If these are GSH, they max out at 9-10". Pretty decent meal for any size WE. YP would help supplement though, that's for sure.

I would definitely feed the GSH pellets if that is all you are going to use for forage, even if you add FHM, I would still feed. I feed my forage fish pellets for the very purpose of allowing the pond to produce more forage fish per acre and thus more game fish.

How much larger does the forage have to be?


That's a SS in it's mouth.......

Nice GSH...

I put 200+ of them in my pond. Without habitat to spawn on, and habitat to hide in, they lasted less than 2 years.

J. Meyer, have you read this thread? http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=353184&nt=2&page=1

Holy crap what a shiner!! You put in 200 9" shiners and they got wiped out! By what? Fire breathing metal fish?

A 16" bass can easily eat a shiner that size. If there is no recruitment, it doesn't take long for them to disappear.

The potential of some 10-14 inch perch has me much more excited. I had visions of ten little guys surrounding my hook at all times. I think you guys sold me on perch now....

How would Black Crappie do in the mix, now that I've broken my WE only way of thinking?

I'll post some pictures of the pond and land in the next couple days.

Now I have visions of pulling massive perch through the holes in my ice shack......

Thanks for all the great advice!

That's why these guys look like this:

JMeyer - Forget the crappie for now. Don't loose sight of your initial goal of walleye. First, focus on establishing a walleye and perch fishery to see how it develops. As mentioned you should purchase pellet trained perch (4"-6" & a low percentage of 6"-8"), pellet trained so they will usually eat more pellets than shiners. Reserve most of the shiner population to feed the walleye. When you feed,, blend both Aquamax number 5 and 6; size 5 for the smaller perch and shiners and size 6 for adult perch. You will be amazed at the size of yellow perch that you can grow in that sand pit. Pellet eating perch will easily and quickly grow to 12"-13", with occasional 14" & 15"ers. Crappie can always be added later if forage seems to overabundant.

If it was my pond, and the forage became too abundant, I'd either reduce my predator removal, or think about a few SMB. Crappie wouldn't be a consideration. A WE/YP with forage pond could grow some great fish!