Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Groundwater pond water fluctuations

Here's what I want it to look like all year 'round:



But, with a groundwater pond, I am at the mercy of the level of the water in the ground. Here's what it looks like now, 50" lower than the first picture... You can see the high water level by the green grass.


Let this be a stark reminder to the guys and gals here that either have a groundwater pond, or have a pond where there is a spring in the pond basin. What Mother Nature gives, she can also take away.......

I have, at this time, the cabability to pump well water into the pond at the rate of 25 gpm. It will slowly bring the pond up about 20" higher than the low level that you see here, but then it reaches a point of equilibrium. It leaks out as fast as it goes in..

Did you get any of the recent rains? If so, how much rainfall, and how much did it go up from it?

Wish there was a magic bullet for you. Good example for others to see!!

Do you think it might leak more after it got to that 20" higher level with more gpm going to it?

Fish 'n chips. Last week we saw 2 3/8" of rain. The pond rose 1.5"

JKB, definately. The question that I cannot answer is how much more GPM would it take to keep it full?

Pardon my ignorance here, as I'm learning....if the bottom were lined with clay as is recommended to many with leaking ponds, would this solve the issue and let you pump water to maintain a full pond?

Whoa!!!!!! So that means you would need 65" inches of rain to get it full and that doesn't even account for seepage and evap....

Yes it would. Problem is that there is no clay on the property unless I want to remove 18' of sand first..... I wouldn't have to just fill the bottom with clay, I would have to fill the sides up and above the projected high water mark.

I looked into trucking in enough clay to line it when I was planning the renovation, but the cost was very prohibitive. It would have more than doubled the renovation costs.

fish 'n chips: Maybe not 65" of rain, but a LOT. The surrounding ground needs to get saturated first, then a neighbors 4' deep 1/4 ac pond has to fill, then the overflow goes to my pond. I only have a couple of acres of watershed to fill this pond. There is more watershed that will eventually flow into the pond, but it comes thru my neighbors property first. In a typical wet Spring, it would be full and the forest would have about 12" of water in it. We had little snowfall last winter, and minimal rain.

Thanks for the reply.

I currently have two small ponds that are essentially water table ponds. The soil has a pretty good clay content where they are located.

I am considering combining the two ponds and making one large pond, and will have well water available if that becomes an issue. I was hoping that the ability to have a clay bottom / sides would (should) prevent the leaking that you experience.

I certainly can understand your frustration but I think even at the lower level, it still is really nice.

Thanks YJ. I planned ahead when the pond was renovated in regards to the slope of the pond banks so I still could walk down to the water if it dropped, but I didn't plan ahead for what the draw down would do to the fish population.

In hindsight, I would have been better off going with HSB, HBG, RES and YP. When I did the renovation I didn't kill off the pond and there were BG/LMB in the pond already.

Scott first, beautiful pond!

So my question is, if the preferred ground water table is the first pic, how would one dig a new pond? Does the ground water present different issues than a run off pond?

Al, digging a pond in this area presents it's problems. Many are just dug with a dragline, but that's not how I prefer to do it. The land is flat, and very few ponds have what you consider to be dams.

My pond was done that way, and that's why I had to renovate it in 2008/2009. Too shallow, banks were too steep, etc. They also hit a hard layer of clay that was about a foot thick that the dragline couldn't go thru. So they quit and the pond would drop to 18"-24" of water depth in that area during late summer.

Most of the ponds, are dug in the late summer/fall when the water table is lowest. Also, they are kept as dry as possible by pumping out the water as if flows into the pond. Digging the deepest part of the pond first, then working on the shallower areas works best because by doing that, you can keep the water down, and see what you are digging. It also keeps wear and tear on the equipment to a minimum.

Groundwater ponds present more problems than run-off ponds. Typically they drop in water level as the summer progresses, leaving all the shallow areas high and dry that would normally have cover (either underwater weeds or man-made cover) for the YOY and smaller fish. By summers end, if it’s a relatively dry year, all the fish are now swimming around in a bathtub, devoid of natural cover. The predators have a field day eating, and it’s hard to keep a forage base established without intensive management.

Also, you have 15’-25’ of shoreline exposed, depending on the slope of the pond bottom. Any cover that was placed in shallow water for the fish is now exposed and is an eyesore.

Walking to the waters edge leaves your shoes muddy, and if any muck has built up, even an inch or so, it gets pretty slippery too…..

It’s difficult to get shoreline plants established because there is no “shoreline”, it’s a constantly moving target.

Also, if the water drops quick enough, BG beds get abandoned because of the water depth.

There’s management practices that can be done to minimize the poor aesthetics during low water levels, but it’s much more difficult (which results in more $$ spent) than dealing with run-off ponds that have a sealed pond basin.

We will see water level changes anywhere from 36” to 96” over the course of the summer, depending on groundwater levels and how the pond was constructed.

Scott, sorry for all of your problems. I follow closely because I might be dealing with a similar situation. I have redone mine twice, and hopefully it will hold water this time. Don't know yet if mine is a ground water pond, but I don't think so. I'll know this summer. Right now with the rain and pumping water from a nearby creek , I'm about 60-70% full. Hope all goes well - it really is a pretty pond...

Wow Scott, I had no clue. The word dedication comes to mind, because it sounds like a lot of thought and planning go into this before you ever move a bucket of dirt.

I'm sitting here waiting for the Spring rains to fill up my puddle, and suddenly that doesn't sound so bad.

That is a pretty big question too! Any way of testing this out before you sink a wad of cash into a new well?

Not sure what your current well is, but maybe try a booster pump inline to get more gpm for a test?

I know how you feel tho. I've been beating my head against a wall for several years now on the best way to build a pond in my situation. Prices are pretty steep, no matter which scenario. Heck, the small 30' x 80' x 8' deep special purpose ponds I wanted to do are rolling in at about 10K each. That's DIY, with cheap help!

I don't think I would ever build a pond but would buy property with one already built. There are too many variables to digging a pond and you can not recoup the cost of a pond when you sell the property. A pond that does not look perfect will cause your property to sell for less then it would without one.

Around here, pond's do not increase your property value. They help on insurance a bit if you live out in the boonies because there is a water source for fire fighting.

Only other instances where a pond adds value is if you are buying a condo or renting an apartment. Water features add value then, but not to the person paying the rent or condo mortgage.

I would guess that HOA's with a pond or lake are the same way.

Bottom line is, you will, in some way, pay extra for a property with a lake or pond.

True, but there's this:

Just got property tax bill. It about doubled. When I asked why, they re-figured the property as residental, not acricultural even tho it's 10 acres. After a discussion, if I bring in a fed income tax form that shows income from the pond, then it'll get switched back to "farm". Guess where I'm going again tomorrow?

It might not show up on this years taxes, but it will go into effect next year.

Every state is different, so what is good here might not be good there.

That's property taxes tho, and how they assess them. They tried pulling that crap when I had my shop. They wanted to rezone it commercial like they did for a neighbor, which pretty much doubled his rate. No mistake about it, ours was clearly industrial so they could not get away with it. They tried to jack it up tho, but the county equalization stepped in and slapped their pattys pretty good for trying to do something illegal.

Heck, if they rezoned it, then we would be illegal and have to shut down.

Stoooopid local gub's.

My property taxes in Fremont went down 25.5% this year. Got some decent people in the county and township now. Glad the previous crew got sent on a hot rail to...

Locals have taken it over

How can you show a profit from a pond? I thought ponds are only good for taking money. I told my tax man I was non profit because I let kids fish my pond and he had nothing to do with it. I would love to get my land zoned ag.

Didn't say he was going to show a profit and remember, All good farmers NEVER show a profit...

Talked to the assessor. All I have to do is show income from the pond to be considered a "farm". I could do the same by planting alfalfa again. Or setting up a fruit stand and selling fruit from the 25 fruit trees. But, raising fish in cages and selling them also qualifies.

On another note, got another 1 3/8" of rain last night. Pond raised 7" total. Still about 4' below full pool.....

Update:

Since the last post, we had a LOT of rain come in June. The pond raised to 6" below full pool.

Since July 1st, we have NOT had the rain that is needed to keep the groundwater levels up. I turned on the well going to the pond, (which puts out 25-28 gpm) and ran it continually from July 1st until August 19th. During that time the pond dropped 11", even with the well running 24/7. I shut off the well on August 19th.

From August 19th until now, without the well running, the pond has dropped another 40". So, from July 1 until now the pond has dropped 53".

It would be a bugger to figure out your leak rate and evaporation rate with said incoming/outgoing without a few fancy gizmos, which leads to more fancy gizmos.

Sheesh! Puter rebooted after clicking on the log splitter thread. Said something was in it, but didn't catch the verbiage.

Looks like an all night scan. I'll be sleeping tho.