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To Ted Lea: I had to smile yesterday when remembering your caution flag after my initial post of using cutrine plus for fil. algae rafts in my pond......."Good Luck PS I would hang on to that other gallon of Cutrine as about 6 weeks is what I have seen Cutrine be effective for.At your depth I imagine that algae is alive and well on the bottom and will surface as it gets enough o2 to do so.".......Well, you were right. You were off about a week on the timing.

This morning I sprayed another 4 gallons of 9:1 cutrine around the perimeter.

I haven't seen the grass carp since I put them in.
They may be eating escargot instead of algae.

As far as mercury is concerned, the wife said that she doesn't care if we're looking at the after effects of Chernobol, she doesn't want to look at a cesspool.

Tom Parker

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Hi Tom, Yes you can usually mark your calender when you treat with Cutrine as far as when you will need to do it again. As far as copper goes it is the safest one on the market. You may want to consider alternating treatments with something like BioSafe's GreenClean PRO ( 85% sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate aka hydrogen dioxide)You may find with extended Cutrine (or any copper)use that it will take a higher dose and more often as time goes on, most folks relate this to warmer water temps as the season progresses but I believe resistance builds. I have witnessed ponds that have used copper for the last 10-15 years and no amount of copper works on their algae any longer.Also keep in mind grass carp do not tolerate a lot of copper. Perhaps Bill C and or Kelly D can add to this post.We dont want to have you considered the "Southern Love Canal \:\) " Good Luck Ted

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To Ted Lea,

Thanks, I figured you would probably enjoy being right with your prediction.

That is an interesting point about the timeline of resistance.......10-15 years for them to mutate in which time, I suppose, the makers of Cutrine have also juggled the formula so it continues to work. It's amazing how much time the human race spends on staying ahead of unpleasant primitive life.

To be honest, being as how I'm 60 years old, I really am not concerned about the ability of those nasty looking globs to mutate in 15 years.

"Love Canal South"......that's a good one.

Tom

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To Ted Lea,

Well, I'm about ready to throw in the towel. The pond is, and I was amazed at how quick, completely covered with algae rafts once again. I am seriously wondering if this is worth it.

They tell me that the water should be too cold for this to happen, but it does. My wife and I jokingly talk about thowing the chemicals to it regardless of the after effects, ala chernobyl or the love canal, however, I am almost to the point where I agree with the wife that this just wasn't meant to be.

I am sure there is something wrong with the way the pond got built or what I am doing to maintain it, but life is too short to put up with this crap at my age.

So, thanks to all of you that have tried to help me and good luck with your special situations, which, it seems from reading all of the posts, that everyone has ad infinitum.

As far as what I am going to do now......well, I have owned this place since 1980, and, since about 1981 I have always wanted to build a pond where I finally did last year, and since I finally built it, it has been nothing but a pain in the a.. So, I guess I am going to sell it and move across the line into Georgia. I know there are plenty of people moving into Florida or coming up from south Florida that are willing to pay high dollar for land with water on it.......as long as I make sure to pump the cutrine to it before the property is shown.

And down the road, I guess, I'll have a lap pool with a fountain in the middle.

Take care and good luck to all, Tom Parker

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Tom,I really hate hearing that the algae is back.Trust me that I work with many frustrated pond owners.Every pond and pond owner is unique.No two are ever alike ! You have spent a lot of time and cash on this project but realize that a pond may not come into its own for at least two years. You mentioned that you were going to fertilize for a bloom in the spring. I would do just that.In a pond as shallow as yours it is very important to get the sunlight blocked if and when algae control is one of the goals. Many posts have commented that blocking the uv will slow algae growth and this is correct.You may have some of your newly planted grass carp rooting on the bottom for plants which are not there and sending the algae mats to the surface fast. You should not have a high nutrient load with your well water but realize your fish are making fertilizer everyday(perhaps not enough for a bloom )With the approx 1.5 million gallons of water in your tank check with (I believe you said you had a Kasco?)your fountain people or the specs and see how many gallons per hr/day you are circulating.I would be curious as to the capacity of your fountain especially if you are going to fertilize.Hang tough for awhile and you will get a handle on this pond and you will see it as an asset vs a pain in the asset.PS Send me your email address or just click on mine, > Ted

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Tom - email me at the address shown in my profile. I'd like to discuss some potential options with you. Regards, Kelly

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Tom,

I haven't read every post so I apologize if I'm repeating others ideas. As opposed to fertilizing your pond, which if done incorrectly, untimely, or at the incorrect rates will cause more headache, why not try a more eye appealing aquatic dye like aquashade. It may not completetly prevent your problem but it could slow it down. Give it a good dose every other month to maintain a good shade and it'll block out some light without adding more nutrients like fertilizers do. If your pond is close to your house, are you fertilizing your yard? That would be a problem if you're receiving runoff from the yard. This is only my two cents, but I wouldn't count on the grass carp for much. Best of luck.

Mike

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please excuse the extended delay in answering, but I went through the disgusted and "don't want anything to do with it period"....so, meanwhile, I have been liberal with the cutrine plus and the aquashade, haven't had a floating raft problem in at least a month, started feeding the panfish I stocked last fall and they are actually feeding as of yesterday; regraded the pond edge that was so eroded after the hurricanes last year and sodded the whole perimeter back 10 feet from the edge; planted 72 15 gallon wax mytles along the dam and installed drip irrigation lines to each.....bottom line, the pond is acutally looking pretty decent.

Again, thanks to all who have offered suggestions.

Tom Parker

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WELCOME BACK Tom, all of us thought perhaps you fell in :)So glad the pond did not get filled in and that you are going to enjoy it now !! Ted

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Thanks Ted, the jury is still out, but there is a fine line being drawn between being a royal pain in the butt, versus something that you can congratulate yourself for having accomplished. In other words, it is still in the love/hate relationship situation at this time.

regards, Tom Parker

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Bud, give these folks a call

http://www.boatcycle.com/tilapia.htm

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Another observation: I had a small floating fil. algae outbreak and sprayed with a 9:1 solution of liquid cutrine as I have done before. I used one gallon in the pond which should accomodate 2.4 gallons according to my calculations. A couple of days later I found two grass carp floaters. Even though the lable says that it will not harm fish or blah, blah...it appears that the grass carp do not like their supper flavored with cutrine.

Anyone else run into this?

Tom Parker

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Grass carp are very sensitive to copper esp in lower alkalinity situations. The lower the alkalinity or toal hardness the more sensitive they become. Grass carp are 6 times more sensitive and trout are 10 times more sensitive to copper than bass at the same hardness level.


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Bill, thanks for the info on grass carp. I found two more floaters this morning, that's 4 out of the total of 10 that I stocked. I guess it's time I had a water sample tested.

Tom Parker

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Tom - your very first post indicates that the pond is approximately 4 to 5 acre-feet of water. If that is so, how did you calculate a 2.4 gal. maximum dose-rate for CUTRINE?

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Kelly, I got it off the mfg website

http://www.appliedbiochemists.com/

According the them, for fil. algae, the recommended dosage is 0.6 gal of liquid cutrine plus per acre foot of water, so .6 x 4 = 2.4 gal. I diluted it at the 9/1 ration, so I mixed 1 gallon with 10 gallons of water and sprayed it. I figured that by only using about 40% of the dosage, I would not create a problem. Apparently, the grass carp did not read the spec sheet.

Tom

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Oh, you don't suppose they mean .6 gal of DILUTED mixture per acre foot of water, do you?

Can't be, I read those directions 2 or 3 times.

geesh, what next!

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Tom You should of been fine at that rate and you did calculate correctly "unless" you still had enough left in the water from the last dose. You can have new algae mats and still have AI left from the last treatment. And treating 4 acre ft for F-algae was the way to do it.Perhaps a high concentration was in an area where the carp were until it was diluted in the pond.It is very difficult to say. On the lite side perhaps since they dont eat F-algae perhaps they starved to death :)Ted

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Tom - you are (were) correct with your calculations. I had a temporary brain-bubble. But, as Ted mentioned, residuals will usually remain from a previous treatment for at least a week or so.
As for dosing, the label is simply a guideline (required by EPA). I usually base the dosage on infested areas only (area to be treated), rather than the total water-volume of a pond. This usually reduces the dosage to a more appropriate level for the task at hand - while reducing the associated risks of using copper.
Bear in mind that this same method cannot be used for some other herbicides where the targeted ppm or ppb is essential for efficacy (ie. SONAR).
KD

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As winter came to an end this year the ice cleared on my Nebraska pond and exposed an 8 to 10 ft. perimeter of filamentous algea. As the weather has warmed into the 60s and 70s I have treated the edges 1/4 of the pond at a time and have attempted to get the algae under control. I have used a one gal. sprayer and 16 OZ. of cutrine plus (2 sprayers full on each 1/4 of shoreline). I also have curly leaf pondweed and have just recently seen it come to the surface. I have used weedtrine D on this and also hydrothol. Everything still seems out of control. What am I doing wrong. the pond I have is about 1 acre and is 10' deep and shaped like a T. I have a windmill aereator and the problem is that in the heat of summer when we need oxygen the wind does'nt blow and I get fish kills. Would an electric aereator prevent kills with a more aggressive alae attack? Help.

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Anyone with some answers could e-mail me. me83712@alltel.net
Thanks for any help. would a whole pond treatment be an answer. another note on my pond is that i add all water from an irragation well. The pond is 4 years old.

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Did I miss something? I spot sprayed 9:1 water and Cutrine Plus and where I sprayed around my arrowhead and blue flag iris it killed them. I thought it did nothing to everything else and only killed algae?

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I have not had a problem with Cutrine killing other plants, because I don't have any. I put in over 9000 square feet of centipede sod along the shoreline to water's edge, but I have not planted any shoreline plants in the shallow water; I have decided to hold off until this pond of mine has "stabilized" itself. Right now, my only problem with vegetation of any kind is the fil.algae, which I have had since day one. So, right now I keep the Aquashade level up (at $46/gallon at Tosco), a gallon about every month and a half, and the cutrine plus sprayed on the floating stuff along the shoreline whenever it gets obnoxious, which is getting less frequent (at $37/gal at Tosco); by the way, the 9:1 mix is what I use....the last time I sprayed was about a month ago. Anyway, I have a bunch of good sized panfish from last fall's stocking, and I have a lot of fry from, what I assume was, the first spawning. I have not introduced LMB yet, maybe a mistake, but so be it.

Anyway, my wife and I sure enjoy having the pond, virtually in our front yard, so I guess that makes it all worth it.

Good luck

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