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#341743 07/01/13 07:15 PM
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Ok so a few guys on here know I am working on a perch pond. Pellet trained perch were stocked last fall and are growing very well on feed. We have dropped in the pond a solid 10,000 emerald shiners and 2000 fat head minnows. All seem to be doing quite well and feeding on pellet scraps too.

We have added 400 paper shell crayfish to the pond and since then the pond water quality has gotten so much nicer. It is clear and clean.

My question is, is there any benefit of me adding or trying to establish a fresh water shrimp population? There is a trout farm north of me that maybe able to sell me a bunch of these little guys to start the pond off. Water is hard pushing 8. I have a very good rocky shore and the crayfish just love it but I do not have any plants at all.

Could dropping in a few hundred of these fresh water shrimp be all for not and could I be wasting my time and money on them?

I really feel I should try my best to get as much diversity as I can in my pond.

Thoughts? Few pictures of the crayfish, fathead, and bluntnose shiners.

Cheers Don.

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That's a very pretty pond you have!

I have really enjoyed working with my freshwater shrimp over the last few years. I have recently been keeping some in an invertebrate only aquarium with scuds. I am amazed at just how smart they are! They see me come in the room and come up to the surface, flip upside down and begin swimming in circles waiting to be fed flakes.

Try to find out what species of shrimp they are... That would be a big help in determining if they would be suitable for your pond.

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I don't think your pond has enough weed cover or finely divided structure for the grass shrimp to thrive. Life span of the shrimp is only one year thus the young ones need lots of cover until they grow to maturity and lay eggs for the next generation. A pond near me had lots of shrimp with small pond weed and water lilies. Owner added grass carp who ate all the small pond weed. Grass shrimp disappeared despite some water lilies still present, but the g.carp are now working on the water lilies by mostly just cutting them off.


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Thanks for the tips guys. I guess if it was to be an option I would need to get some plant life started in the pond. Really worried about getting a plant that is not easy to control in plants I buy. 99% of the time getting plants from an aquarium store there are snails on them too.


Over the years I have had a few different fresh water aquariums and I have had some glass shrimp. They always found away to jump out and die. Really have to have a very tight top on them and even still if they could they would shoot out where the filter was pouring back into the tank. funny thing is I see my crayfish in the pond jumping at the base of my water fall like they are trying to get up a river. Weird.

Cheers Don.


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I wouldn't use aquarium plants, I'd see what plants are growing in ponds or other BOW's near you that you wouldn't mind having in your pond. IMO, aquarium plants wouldn't make it thru your winters, and if they did, they might very well be invasive.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
I wouldn't use aquarium plants, I'd see what plants are growing in ponds or other BOW's near you that you wouldn't mind having in your pond. IMO, aquarium plants wouldn't make it thru your winters, and if they did, they might very well be invasive.


Strongly suggest you heed esshup's advice here Dono.

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If you do transfer plants, do the usual due diligence for unwanted hitchhikers.


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Another forage species is always desirable, so it will be worth it.

I stocked around 200 that I dip netted from a friend's pond. Though my pond was new and had no plant cover at the time, they established great. By year 3, I could dip net anywhere around the banks and catch as many as 2 dozen per swipe. I net them and use them for bait, and they beat just about all other baits. I find shrimp in the gullets of lots of my BG and BC, and it's common to catch up to 14" LMB on the little guys while fishing for BG.

I have Mississippi grass shrimp (palaemonetes kadiakensis), and would think Canada is at the very edge of their range.

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Originally Posted By: esshup
I wouldn't use aquarium plants, I'd see what plants are growing in ponds or other BOW's near you that you wouldn't mind having in your pond. IMO, aquarium plants wouldn't make it thru your winters, and if they did, they might very well be invasive.


I am looking for a few lily pads and on my ridge I would like to get a lawn of dwarf sagittaria grass going. I have a great deal of pea stone mixed with chips and dust on this ridge to anchor some small pot plugs of them.

Not too worried about the flowers of the lily pads more some shade cover and nothing that will take over the pond. There is a yellow lily pad we see everywhere around here. I don't know if it is an over bearing pad or not.

Cheers Don.


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The Yellow Lilypad is more than likely Spatterdock, and can overtake a pond. It can spread quickly.

Look for what are called "Hardy Lilies" they come in all different colors, and usually are listed by water depth that they prefer. They spread a lot less per year, and are what I'd put in a pond.


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freshwater shrimp, can they live in southern Indiana


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If they have sufficient underwater vegetation, yes.


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I see someone is selling freshwater "shrimp" scuds on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=scuds&_sacat=0&_from=R40


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I see someone is selling freshwater "shrimp" scuds on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=scuds&_sacat=0&_from=R40



Can anyone educate me on these guys? What are they and would they live in Ontario?

Cheers Don.


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Here are some links to previous discussions that we have had about scuds; aka and commonly called freshwater shrimp by laymen. However they are not really true shrimp as in grass or grass shrimp.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=112888&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=140120


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...ite_id=1#000003


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...ite_id=1#000000

Mostly about freshwater shrimp (Palaeomonetes) not scuds (Gammarus).
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...amp;Search=true



Scuds the genus Gammarus have several species with the largest about 1/2" to 5/8" long. The larger ones survive in cool water, trout habitats or marginal trout water (cool water species) and need vegetation usually some dense vegetation to survive moderate fish predation. Wood a member here had lots of them in his pond in Western Canada - Alberta.
The larger species that Wood had grew well in the pond that had Coontail as the main weed. Places that raise, harvest and sell scuds grow them in fishless ponds.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/20/13 04:25 PM.

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Hi Don
They are living in all parts ot the world(climate) numerous different species, around here (Norway) you find them in high mountain creeks, streams and lakes all the way up north, in typical good arctic char habitat.
So they would definetly live in Ontario as well
http://www.waterwereld.nu/vlokreefteng.html
http://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.com/2008/04/12/freshwater-amphipod-gammarus/
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92812&page=1

cheers


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody

Scuds the genus Gammarus have several species with the largest about 1/2" to 5/8" long.


This scud is a bit larger hehe
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/02...ear-New-Zealand
not a fresh water specie thou grin


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So they would be a good addition to a food chain for our ponds?


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They are a good addition to improve the food chain IF they have the correct habitat to survive, reproduce, and annually provide new scuds into the food chain. Otherwise you are just temporarily feeding your fish and putting extra cash in the vendor's pocket. Without the proper habitat to survive long term it is basically the same as annually dumping FHMinnows into the pond which lots of people do regularly. Better management is to utilize species that are able to survive long term the predatory pressure of the current fishery in a well balanced pond based on ones goals. Similar to the bluegill in combination with LM bass, which in most cases, is a self sustaining fish combination. I have tried stocking scuds in a small NW Ohio pond that just had minnows - shiners. Scuds did not survive due to what I believe was a temperature problem rather than a predator - habitat problem.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/20/13 07:11 PM.

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I used to see tons of these in a creek near my parent's house growing up. The creek was heavily polluted at times along with fish kills due to a photography company upstream dumping chemicals. These little buggers are tough, being about the only survivors from the chemicals.

Chara would be good cover for them, and other thick vegetation like FA and coon tail. I always found them tangled up in wads of vegetation. I may go get some from that now clean creek when I stop by my parents house this weekend. I hadn't thought of these, they are "free" and native!

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Originally Posted By: liquidsquid
I always found them tangled up in wads of vegetation.


Yep, good stands of vegetation are one of the keys to having scuds present. wink I found this one in my dad's old pond while raking up vegetation along the shore.

Hyalella azteca I believe.






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I have begun culturing them for feeding to my aquarium fish. They are so prolific they put FHM to shame...

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the water lettuce in my crayfish pond is litterally crawling with them. I cleaned it out once in an attempt to reduce the numbers of them. I would say infested


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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
I have begun culturing them for feeding to my aquarium fish. They are so prolific they put FHM to shame...


Please tell us more culturing fresh water shrimp CJ!

I am setting up a 75 gallon aquarium to overwinter a few of my faster growing RES that have been pellet trained, but I want to feed them more than just pellets.



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I collected about 2 dozen Hyalella azteca from a wild source and placed them in a small 2 gallon aquarium I have. There are also PK grass shrimp in the aquarium and lesser killifish.

Surprisingly, I find the scuds and grass shrimp in particular to be very interesting to watch. Anyways, The aquarium has an external box filter that hangs off the back of the aquarium. The scuds are so numerous that when I am changing the filter media, I simply pull the filter out and bang into a bucket. Literally hundreds of the scuds pop off. If I need more, I can use a small aquarium net and run it through the java moss and obtain more.

I have to do that every so often or the scuds become too abundant. Substrate of the aquarium is sand, with a few larger rocks covered with java moss. I feed ground up goldfish flakes to them once a day. Water changes with distilled water once a week, 10-20%. I have been able to take the over abundant scuds and transfer them to several other ponds in hopes they will take hold. Between the scuds and young least killifish, I have an excellent feeder supply for some of the projects I am working on. I just got my grass shrimp to successfully reproduce for the first time too. I am thinking of making a 10 gallon tank in this combination to increase the numbers I can produce.

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