Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Trees on pond dam

hello all,
I have recently come to live on family land that has a pond. unfortunately the pond was neglected for some time and as a result a mix of pine and hardwood trees have grown on both the downstream side and on the water body side. the pines reach as high as 35-40 feet (eyeball estimate) and maybe 2-3 feet in diameter.
I have been looking for a definitive "go/no go" for cutting and removing these trees. my internet research has given me some guidance, including some of the posts on this forum. I will admit to be being very new to the area of pond management. I have done what little I could with regards to clearing the brush and small trees off the dam but there is still a large amount to be done.
my biggest concern is do I need to remove the large trees from the dam? if so, what is the best method? is it better to leave actively growing trees alone? if I do remove them am I basically guaranteeing myself problems in the future. any help would be greatly appreciated. I can provide photos of the dam if those would be helpful (and if someone with more knowledge can instruct me on how to post them on this forum). I have not yet called my local NRCS office to see what guidance they can offer.


Jonesy

Welcome, try www.photobucket.com or the photobucket app if you have a smartphone. Upload your photo. Then copy photo image code and paste in your comment and pic should show in that spot in post.

I've got quite a few trees on my dam as well and recently had a large Pine die and was wondering if I should leave it or cut it. I had the Missouri DNR come out and they said remove all trees from dam, end of story. This is what they recommend in all cases.

SK63, you're dead on with DNR. Same with any DFW in our area. Trees near a dam will cause havoc as the head pressure mount, finding a leaching potential area/areas via the roots, and the dam is compromised.

Trees/brushes must be removed at minimal of 100ft from any dam structure.

However, when you are removing trees, make sure to remove everything..I mean everything, especially the roots. Jwann is right about posting the photos. We need to make sure we give you proper advice before you start removing trees, or you'll lose more than just a dam and some trees.

If you already have trees on your dam that are over 4 inches or so if you remove them you may risk it dying off and creating a leak if you don't get the roots and all! Larger trees you better just leave alone at this point unless you want to re-work your entire dam! I would leave them alone unless they are under 4 inches in diameter. That's just me.

RC

I am with RC51 on this one. I have dealt with trees for my whole life in one capacity or another.

"It's recommended to remove all trees."-- Yes, but when they get big their roots can be deep. So to say remove all roots might mean digging into the core of a dam which is what we all want to stay away from. If they are living, then the roots will not rot and cause a cavity of the size of the root. But when they die, beware, it most likely will become a problem. The key to management is never let trees grow on the dam, --front, back, anywhere. Some trees do not have deep surface roots and are spread out on just the surface, not as much problems with those, but still better of avoided.

Like so many other questions, the answer is "it depends".

A tree on the dam now is a problem and the same tree in twenty years is going to be a bigger problem. It depends on how big of a problem you are willing to tackle now or later.

It depends. Are you going to own the pond for 5 years or 50 years?

The tree problem will not go away and will only get worse. I'm in the exact same problem with several pines that take two of us to get our arms around. I've got some tools for the project and will start stumping them out maybe next year. The plan is to go slow and methodical. I'm looking at one of these for a mini-excavator (http://www.excavatorthumb.com/stumper_610k-tree-stumper-and-rake-for-mini-excavators.php) to help get the roots out without having to dig bunker sized holes in the dam with a standard bucket.

-RFL

Just to add a little more mud to the water....

Don't cut them if they are larger (4" or greater like RC said). Too risky. Not only will the rooting rots make way for piping water, they will also decrease the compaction of the soil they're in when the die. I've got a pine in my yard that we cut down and left the stump. If you go out there today and walk within 3 to 5 feet from the stump, the ground is literally mushy. Also, pine trees, unlike most hardwoods, have an exceptionally deep tap root.

I say let the big ones live. In 20 or 30 years when you have to dredge the silt out of the pond, just grub the stumps out then.

thanks for the advice, I will look into photobucket and try and get the pictures up this weekend.

I read this advice from about 50% of my sources thus far. good to know I'm not the only one wrestling with the issue. I may need to put in a call to my DNR office.

I had a feeling that the roots would be the main concern I'd have. I had some trepidation about digging into the dam to go after the roots. stay tuned to the thread for photos sometime this weekend.

supposing I went after the roots, is it possible to repair the damage? would I have to try and pack some clay material or the like into the cavities left behind? would that even be possible?

Jonsey,
I routinely work with landowners that have small ponds. Trees of any size and dams do not go together for various reasons. One thing we in the South also need to consider is the effect of storms, tropical storms and hurricanes. Large trees growing on dams can be more vulnerable to uprooting because they have little root support as compared to trees rooted in native soil. Large uprooted trees could result in a breached dam. Just one more thought to consider.

I believe my biggest fear is that some of these trees are capable of being blown over and ripping the dam apart. once this problem is taken care of, I will definitely have a firmer hand in taking care of the trees that try and spring up.

"it depends" is an answer that goes against my black & white nature, but I had feeling it was a pretty appropriate response in this case. as it stands, I believe the worst of the trees are those "20 year" trees that you are talking about. as of now I would like to be on the land for a long time, closer to the 50 number than the five. personally I would like to tackle this problem when it will require the least cost, equipment, and manpower.
would I be correct in assuming that you are electing to tackle the problem now and be proactive as opposed to waiting?
thanks for the link. I will take a look and see if I think it can help me solve this problem. I hope you will keep me posted on how your approach works out.

I appreciate the advice. If I wait to dredge then get the trees and stumps, would a complete dam rebuild be required?

this is one fear that had been working on my mind. some recent storms we had here had gusts topping 50 mph and I was convinced I was gonna go down to the pond and find a very big gap in the dam. hence the reason I started looking for guidance.

Well I guess it all comes down to what you can afford to do. I too have some rather large trees on my dam. I have access to any type of equipment that I want to remove them, so I am lucky there but do I want to remove them????

NO!! I have some trees that are over plate size big and you WILL get yourself into trouble digging them up then what? Then your paying for a guy to come in and fix your dam if you don't know how to do it yourself all your fish could die as well.

So bottom line is pay now or pay later either way I could almost bet the house if you start pulling large size trees off your dam your gonna end up paying sooner than later. Trees of that size could have roots as long at 20 feet maybe longer. I think this is where that old saying came from long ago. "If it aint broke don't fix it" Im just saying!!

RC