Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New to ponds and pond boss... FL/TN

I just wanted to say hello to everyone. I currently live in Tampa FL and am looking to move to Tennessee here within the next few months. I will be taking a job offer in Sevierville/Gatlinburg area and will be looking to find some land to start a homestead. being that I've spent the majority of my life in Florida fishing is a huge part of who I am so I thought why not plan a sweet pond on the new homestead for both food and fishing sake. I have tons of questions and am a very fan of getting my hands dirty. While buying the land and building the pond is most likely 1 to 3 years out. I'm pretty excited.

Anyhow I look forward to being an active member of this forum.

Thanks

Marcus

You came to the right place! Everybody here will help you get started right. Far too many people find this site too late, including myself. You are very lucky to have stumbled here. Welcome to Pond Boss!

Welcome Marcus. Just jump right in!

So I have an Idea of the type of pond that I think I would like but am unsure if it is feasible or what specifics would be necessary to make it feasible. Being that I am a saltwater angler I find most freshwater species somewhat lame to catch. I suppose switching to ultralight gear may fix that but in general I may have to just accept that the fight of Tarpon, Snook, Redfish, Amberjack, etc just isn't going to happen in a small pond.

Keeping in mind that I want this for the fun of angling and eating I have found interest in hsb, we, rt, and yp. This seems like an awful lot of predators however for a pond (I'm hoping for a 1-2 acre pond). I also don't know how well the big three coexist either.

I know that trout need very good quality water and that temperature is a big deal. I am trying to find property that will have a year round spring to keep water moving and cool. I am not sure if this is beneficial or not but I am hoping it would also help with oxygen levels.

What all should I keep in mind when searching for property to support this type of pond? Are there any other species/species combos that may be good to look at? I will be looking for land around Sevierville/Gatlinburg TN. Most of the land is around the Great Smoky Mountain National Park.

Thanks for the welcome and responses

Marcus

Gotta run so this will be brief.

A pond with a spring that is below the full pool water level will fluctuate with the ground water level. My pond is a groundwater pond, and is currently 50+ inches low......

If you can find a spring that is above the pond to flow into the pond that will be the best.

Trout have to have water that is over 6 ppm O2 and below 70°f.

What you are proposing is feasible with supplemental feeding, feed trained fish (with the exception of the WE) and a good forage base if the water quality is there.

Are you aware of the Pond Boss book "Perfect Pond Want One" ?
http://www.pondboss.com/store.asp?c=8
It covers finding property, selecting contractors, moving dirt, fish structure and finding fish farms.

If you can find property with a strong spring or good well water you can have trout year round. Without significant cool water inflow into a 1-2 acre pond trout will perish in June-Aug even if the pond is deep. If weak spring flow or a lower flow well is the option, consider a small upper pond (0.1-0.2ac) or deep raceway type system for trout and water over flows out into the larger pond at a slightly lower elevation. HSB, WE, RT, YP are compatable. WE would be a bonus fish; others can be pellet fed.

If you built the pond in FL you could possibly have some species of salt water fish in it such as tarpon and a few others tolerant of freshwater. Aren't many wells or the ground water in FL highly mineralized to provide high conductivity for some salt, esturine water species? The salt water fish might not spawn but they would survive in a FL pond? Get in touch here with Bobby Rice a member here who knows a fair amount about marine fish succcess in FL ponds.

I didn't even think of have two separate but adjoining type of ponds... Good idea to ponder. I will also take a look at that book. As far as saltwater species unfortunately I am moving to TN from FL so I'm afraid I will have to say good bye that idea as great as it would have been.

The properties that I have looked at have year round creeks or some sort of spring on property I pretty much made that a mandatory item on the checklist. One of the properties has the creek fed by a spring from a rock crevice/cave.

How expensive is maintaining a pond like this with feed? Not that I am worried about funds but just would like to know ballpark figures. Has anyone seen "lightning trout" they look pretty cool but I couldn't find much on them?

Would having a separate hatchery pond make it possible to continue to stock the larger pond with enough forage fishes or is the feed pellets a must?

Thanks

Marcus

In my pond I'm feeding a bag a month and it runs about $40/month. I think you'd get better results from feeding than by stocking forage fish.

Amount of feed depends on how many fish you are feeding. More = more.
Ponds can be easily maintained without feeding pellets. The pellets cause more fish to be raised, often more larger fish, and often faster growing fish. To do it without feeding one just has to raise a lot fewer fish so there is always lot of forage food items (small fish and invertebrates) to feed the few remaining fish well. It depends on goals but you can't have it both ways i.e. natural foods and lots of big quality fish. Lower fertility and Natural foods = few quality fish per acre.

Welcome, Mrd.
Not much to add, other than that I've occasionally seen properties in that area that have springs/trout ponds, so with the right set up, it's definitely doable.
You're moving to a region that has really fantastic fishing, may not rival salt water, but 40+ pound stripers, excellent smallmouth bass, and some unbelievable tailwater trout will take some of the sting out of the move, for sure.
TN also has some excellent muskie fishing, but don't tell anyone.

Thanks for the welcome. I went ahead and ordered that book. I'm sure there is a lot of good info in there. I am really excited to move to TN even though there are a lot of unknowns moving to a new place. I will be taking over an IT business as my friend who started it has been hired as the vice president of a moon shine distillery there and cant keep the business.

I will be renting first to find the perfect property. I would also like to have this pond to possibly attract game I will likely have some food plots and cover near bye. What other type questions should I be answering to better plan for this?

Bill you say lower fertility and natural foods = few quality fish per acre. Is that bad? I guess my thinking was that most of the fish i would be stocking i would have to continually restock and would get to pick the fish out right? Or does it not work that way? What quantity of fish are we talking about when we say few quality fish?

Is the moonshine distillery located in the woods? If so you may need to not burn any bridges in Fl. My bride and I spent our honeymoom at Pigeon Forge. Gas was 17 cents a gal. and motel room was 8$ a night in 1971. It is beautiful country.

Haha no its not in the woods... Its ole smokey moonshine. They are doing quite well. As far as the land being beautiful I agree. Its one of my favorite places in the US.

Mrd05d a late welcome from MS and the whole PB crew !

Mrd05d asks - 1. "Bill you say lower fertility and natural foods = few quality fish per acre. Is that bad?" No it is not bad, although some may consider it not what they want. Most want lots of quality sized or 'big' fish per acre. Higher fertility supports more fish pounds per acre and if you manage by selectively harvesting fish for more larger fish, angling is more impressive.

2. ""..my thinking was that most of the fish i would be stocking i would have to continually restock and would get to pick the fish out right? Or does it not work that way?"" Some or a few user friendly fish farms allow selecting individual fish, although they may ask a small up charge for that option. Many do not allow it. You will have to do good homework as to which fish farms in your region are best for your goals. One option I and some use is buy mixed fish, grow them in small ponds, in cages, or behind blocking nets when grown to larger sizes, choose which ones are released. The rejects are invited to dinner, given away, sold, or traded.

3. "What quantity of fish are we talking about when we say few quality fish?" Quantity will be based on your pond's fertility and amount of phytoplankton that it is able to raise naturally without fertilization. So it is hard to provide a definate number of pounds of fish at this point if we don't know the pond's productivity as sometimes determined by a Secchi disk. Novices and even some experienced in advanced pond management will need help with this. Good advice on this topic is available from some forum members. See this for an introduction:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92624#Post92624

The total pounds of fish will be distributed among all sizes of the species present. Those pounds will be divided by the numbers of prey and predators.
This is 'how in theory' it works. In naturally fed pond populations the prey to predator ratio is or should be at least 10 and often 20 prey to every predator. So right from the onset, the pond will ideally have about 15 times more pounds of prey fish (forage) than predator fish. Let's assume that your pond is "average" fertility of 150 fish pounds per acre. This means that the pond should have around 140 pounds of preyfish and 10 pounds of predator. We will assume that there are 10, 1 lb predators. Each eats 8-10 lbs of forage per year. This leaves 40-50 pounds of preyfish to reproduce and provide food for the next year. Often what happens is the predators reproduce and now more predators are too abundant and over eat the prey fish depleating their numbers (pounds). Now the pond is out of ideal balance. Predator growth suffers - slows down - predators get skinny. This is where many pond owners use fish pellets to suppliment pellet feed and compensate for lack of prey or forage fish and boost the number and sizes of sustainable larger sized preyfish and predators.

If you haven't read the Topic of "Carrying Capacity" in the Common Q&A Archives then study this:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440

Proper fish management for quality or premium fishes can get a little complicated due to all the influences that can interact and affect a fish community and one's goals. The management is not quite so complicated early in the pond's history when fewer and smaller predators are present. Where it becomes more complicated is after 4-6 years the predators are larger and the community or fishery contains numerous generations of predators and prey, and all conntinue reproducing. All sizes / ages of those reproducing fish have to interact and maintain a balanced community for the goals, thus management becomes more difficult year after year due to recruitment success and year class strength of the offspring. To simplify this, I and a few others have promoted introducing or using non-reproducing predators fro ponds which makes management and maintaining higher numbers of quality predator populations much easier due to lack of annual recruitment of new predators that need or demand to be fed so they grow well.


Quality of fish by my definition are actually those in the "Preferred" or "Memorable" categories as listed in Fisheries Techniques book (1996) by Murphy & Willis as in Dr.Dave Willis, So Dakota State Univ. Fisheries Professor and a member here. The book lists 5 size categories and appropriate lengths for all sport fish which are Stock, Quality, Preferred, Memorable and Trophy. As book examples for your desired species the sizes would be: YP: Quality 8", preferred 10", memorable 12"; HSB: Qual 12", preferred 15", memorable 20"; RBT: Qual 16", preferred 20", memorable 26"; walleye Qual 15", preferred 20", memorable 25".