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Wipers
#326504 03/20/13 07:11 PM
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I've seen a few post about HSB in ponds, how about wipers? My pond is 2 years old and stocked with bg,lmb,cc,&fhm. How about introducing wipers into the mix?

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326512 03/20/13 07:22 PM
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HSB are wipers. HSB stands for hybrid striped bass which is what wipers are. The W comes from White bass and the IPER comes from strIPER.

In general, particularly if you feed your fish, the addition of HSB doesn't affect the fishery too much and can add a great bonus fish to the mix.


Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.
Re: Wipers
CJBS2003 #326520 03/20/13 07:54 PM
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I know what wipers are, I just thought that hsb's were hybrid stripers not wipers. What do you think stocking rate should be? I know HSB are big time eaters so you don't think they out compete lmb for food?

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326524 03/20/13 08:11 PM
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HSB will compete with LMB, but minimally. They occupy a different nitch in the pond than LMB. Stocking numbers depend on your goals, the forage base in the pond, if you feeding pelleted fish food, etc., etc.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326567 03/21/13 08:27 AM
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My forage consist of 1000 bg stocked 1.5 years ago and they have spawned twice getting ready for the third. The first ones r bigger than my hand now. 2000 fhm that have spawned several times. 200 lmb and cc last July were stocked. Pond is 1 acre and 15 ft deep except spawning bed. Fish are being fed gfc but switching to am500&600. Goal is to have a great fishing hole, that's why I'm interested in HSB. Any thoughts on stocking rate for HSB?

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326569 03/21/13 08:28 AM
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By the way, I keep my pond at a stable water level by pumping with an irrigation well and have a aerator.

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326573 03/21/13 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: jdfarmer
By the way, I keep my pond at a stable water level by pumping with an irrigation well and have a aerator.


I hate you.

Just kidding.

I live in Seward county (the non irrigated part) and I have some HSB ordered from Rob Hofpar over by Raymond, for delivery later this year. You might contact him if interested.

Re: Wipers
CJBS2003 #326576 03/21/13 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
HSB are wipers. HSB stands for hybrid striped bass which is what wipers are. The W comes from White bass and the IPER comes from strIPER.

Just to confuse the issue, Texas Parks and Wildliife now call HSB "Palmetto Bass" which is a Striped Bass X White Bass cross, which TP&W produces in their hatchery.
To the best of my knowledge, the HSB from Arkansas hatcheries are White Bass X Striped Bass cross, sometimes called "Sunshine Bass".

Wipers sound to me like something found in bathrooms... laugh
George



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326577 03/21/13 10:16 AM
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Hi JD,

Also a Nebraskan and I'm near Walton, I'm not going to be on Bullhead's favorite list either as I'm able to keep my pond full with a well too and my pond is also aerated (sorry Bullhead smile ).

I stocked 100 HSB (It's hard to beat the fight of a Wiper, but not the kind found in bathrooms, George smile ) last September through Rob that Bullhead mentioned and it amazed me how fast they grew in just a few months and I'm feeding AQ500. I stocked 100 LMB at the same time (all at 6-8" stockers) and the HSB far outpaced the growth of the LMB.

Although, you're way ahead of me on the forage issue which is another reason my LMB growth is slow. I didn't spend enough time researching and put the cart before the horse, stocking the HSB and LMB before the forage base was established. So I'm now needing to stock at least 1000 BG, and big enough that they won't just be a snack for the LMB and HSB that are in there now frown That's an expense I'm not looking forward to! Lessoned learned!

It seems our goals are similar for our ponds except I passed on the CC. Good luck and keep us posted!


Keith - Still Lovin Livin

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(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326582 03/21/13 10:41 AM
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I get all my fish from willow lake hatchery north of Hastings. Thanks for the info. I guess I might go ahead and stock HSB. After reading about cc I wish I wouldn't have stocked them.

Re: Wipers
Lovnlivin #326583 03/21/13 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Lovnlivin

Although, you're way ahead of me on the forage issue which is another reason my LMB growth is slow. I didn't spend enough time researching and put the cart before the horse, stocking the HSB and LMB before the forage base was established. So I'm now needing to stock at least 1000 BG, and big enough that they won't just be a snack for the LMB and HSB that are in there now frown That's an expense I'm not looking forward to! Lessoned learned!

It seems our goals are similar for our ponds except I passed on the CC. Good luck and keep us posted!



He won't be ahead of you for long, stocking 200 LMB in the 1 ac pond.....

But, that depends on his goals. If he wants a pond that has large BG and <16" LMB, then he's doing it correctly. Typical stocking rates for BG/LMB are 15-20/1 in ponds where you want to have large LMB and not large BG. Plus the CC, when they get over 3# will also start eating the BG.

Let me clarify. 2000 BG to 50-75 LMB per acre for a fast growing LMB pond. Usually a 1 ac pond can support a max of about 100# of LMB. In a one acre pond, if you wanted LMB to grow quickly, you can’t stock 200 LMB and 8,000 BG without eventually having water quality issues.

Being relatively “up North”, and having the BG in the pond a year ahead of the LMB, the BG may stay ahead of the LMB. It all depends on the size that the BG were when stocked, the size of the LMB that were stocked, and if the BG pulled off a spawn before the LMB were stocked.

If it was my pond, and I were shooting for a more balanced pond, I’d remove at least half of the LMB before stocking HSB. I’d also want to try and get GSH established. They’ll help diversify the forage base. The FHM won’t last another year in the pond with the LMB in there now.

Last edited by esshup; 03/21/13 10:52 AM. Reason: clarification

www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326586 03/21/13 11:00 AM
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Personally I'm after the larger LMB and not large BG but yet enough of them to keep the kids happy when they toss in a line. I may be in the minority regarding the BG but it's probably because I've always been a bass fisherman. But then again I've never had my own pond up until last year.

A person can really fall into information-overload with so much great advice and information on PB and make you think twice, or three or four times about what you want as goals crazy

(you edited while I was slow-typing) Great information Esshup, thanks!

Last edited by Lovnlivin; 03/21/13 11:04 AM.

Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326590 03/21/13 11:43 AM
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I guess I stocked my pond the way the fisheries biologist and my fish guy said to. Stupid question what is GSH?

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326591 03/21/13 11:46 AM
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Golden Shiner.

And not a stupid question at all.

Re: Wipers
Omaha #326592 03/21/13 11:48 AM
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Thanks!

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326594 03/21/13 11:53 AM
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Since I'm not sure how, hopefully someone can lead you to the archive that explains the different acronyms.

Unless this works:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442


Last edited by Lovnlivin; 03/21/13 12:01 PM.

Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326596 03/21/13 12:15 PM
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That is the one.
















Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326603 03/21/13 12:51 PM
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Some fish guys just want to sell fish, and don't look out for the customers best interests. Just like a car salesman, if someone comes in to the dealership and wants a 2 seater sports car, but really needs a mini-van, the salesman will sell them what they want, not what they really need.

If the biologist was going off of data or recommendations that was generated by the State, that data could be decades or many, many decades old. Back then, ponds were used as a food source, and people harvested more fish from them per acre than they do today. So, an initial stocking of 200 LMB per acre might see a heavy harvest of LMB once they got to 12"-14" long for the dinner table. That same pond in a couple years time might only have 50-75 adult LMB left in it, and a relatively large standing crop of juvenile LMB.

That's why German Carp were introduced - they are a popular food fish in Europe, and will produce a lot of pounds of fish per acre of water. In the '20's and '30's, that was needed. Now not so much....


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Wipers
esshup #326616 03/21/13 01:57 PM
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I just got back from talking to my fish guy(he only lives 2 miles from me)and he is concerned about using GSH because they are predatory too. He suggested stocking FHM when I thought I needed them. I asked him if he thought I had to many LMB and he said no, a good rule of thumb for him in our climate is 5-1. But he did say if I wanted HSB I should remove some LMB. He's been doing this for 42 years and ships all over central US. So now I'm really confused! I've known him all my life so I don't think he is just trying to sell me fish.

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326618 03/21/13 02:41 PM
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Hi jdfarmer,

It's easy to get confused and overwhelmed. I am new to all of this myself, and have been reading here for aprox. two years. The pros here give pretty solid advice, and is usually way ahead of the pack about what the best/latest advice is. I am sure your friend is well versed too if he has been in the business that long. You just have to learn as much as you can and figure out your ultimate goals, listen to all advice given, and make the best decision you can based on all the info presented.

"a great fishing hole" can mean so many different things to different people. You may want to get as specific as you can about that, then they will be able to really fine tune ideas for you.

Last edited by fish n chips; 03/21/13 02:42 PM.
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326620 03/21/13 02:52 PM
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Stocking FHM would be a waste of money at this time.. IMHO I don't think that's good advice., unless you have prime habitat for them..

Do you run a feeder?


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326626 03/21/13 03:53 PM
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It takes 10# of forage fish to get 1 LMB to gain 1#. So if 1000 FHM would weigh 5#(ballpark guess) you would have to add 400,000 FHM to get all your LMB to gain a pound.

Find out what GSH are predatory on, and you might be able to sacrifice that for the betterment of something else more needed. HSB like to eat GSH, and if the GSH get big enough before the HSB, then they will be able to spawn successfully and provide a natural food source for awhile.

Re: Wipers
Bluegillerkiller #326627 03/21/13 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Stocking FHM would be a waste of money at this time.. IMHO I don't think that's good advice., unless you have prime habitat for them..

Do you run a feeder?


In another thread he said that there is a feeder running and his LMB are feed trained. I wonder how much that affects the outcome of the LMB, BG ratio that he stocked?

Last edited by fish n chips; 03/21/13 03:59 PM.
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326635 03/21/13 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: jdfarmer
I just got back from talking to my fish guy(he only lives 2 miles from me)and he is concerned about using GSH because they are predatory too. He suggested stocking FHM when I thought I needed them.


What are your goals for that pond 6-8 years from now? Large BG with LMB mostly 18" or less, LMB of "X" (you fill in the blank) size with Bluegills as a secondary fish, etc. etc.

Once predators are established in the pond (that means BG and LMB), stocking FHM will only be a short term snack for the fish. FHM move too slow to be good at escaping predators. Typically, they are completely gone a year to two years after predators are stocked. If you want to give the fish that are under 8" a snack, then by all means stock FHM! They can be used as a tool to help certain year class/size fish grow if smaller forage fish aren't available. But, if you expect larger fish than that to grow on them, they won't. They have to expend too many calories for each fish that they catch.

Think of this. Would you put on more weight if you had to chase a large steak a quarter mile, or every piece of popcorn that you ate?

If you can for me, ask your fish guy what fish he's worried that the GSH will eat, what size those fish (the prey) would be, and how long they'll be that size. Let us know what he says.

GSH are supposed to eat fish eggs too. But, if that's LMB eggs, then they'll help keep the YOY LMB numbers down.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Wipers
jdfarmer #326637 03/21/13 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: jdfarmer
I just got back from talking to my fish guy(he only lives 2 miles from me)and he is concerned about using GSH because they are predatory too. He suggested stocking FHM when I thought I needed them. I asked him if he thought I had to many LMB and he said no, a good rule of thumb for him in our climate is 5-1. But he did say if I wanted HSB I should remove some LMB. He's been doing this for 42 years and ships all over central US. So now I'm really confused! I've known him all my life so I don't think he is just trying to sell me fish.


JD..without implying anything toward your supplier one way or another, longevity has little to do with quality or knowledge, often it is as simple as being the location and lack of competition. There are a lot of farms that fill orders and make recommendations based solely on what stock is available and most profitable...similar to many car dealers.

Adding Fatheads in mature ponds will make your small LMB do better, and only speed an overabundance of LMB in most situations. Removing Biomass, providing proper structure, and/or adding the proper sized forage is the best way to manage effectively.

GSH being somewhat predatory is not always a bad thing if it slows the overpopulation of LMB and in turn produce forage in a wider range of size classes.

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